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Thread: Problems resizing LC 7.62 brass

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Problems resizing LC 7.62 brass

    I am using once fired LC 7.62 brass. It was deprimed with a Lee universal and then pin tumbled.

    To resize I was using a RCBS small base die and imperial sizing lube. I was meeting firm resistance at the base, but that was expected as this is likely machine gun brass. What surprised me was that on occasion on the upstroke I would either partially or totally rip off the entire neck. It is very tough getting a whole neck removed. On the last attempt I broke the threaded rod.

    I have loaded a lot of LC brass and never had this problem. Suggestions?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    What may be happening is the expander ball on the rod is set to high and pinching the case neck between it and the dies body in the neck area. Most dies size the neck down .005-.007 to small then on the way out the expander opens it back up to size. As an experiment remove the rod and size some cases and see if the issue persists. if not this is more than likely the problem. Also check size on the expander to make sure its right.

    A q-tip with imperial die wax in it can be used to lightly lube the inside of the necks. Or a neck libe tool can be made easily. A pill bottle works for this simple set up. At the hardware store pick up a 8-32 coupling nut ( longer length than a standard nut) and ether a 30 cal bore swab or nylon brush. Glue the couple nut in the bottom of the pill bottle with epoxy. Center it as well as you can and let cure. I filled mine around the nut up about 1/4" from bottom with epoxy. when cured screw the mop/ nylon brush into the nut. Add a small amount of graphite or moly into pill bottle. Put cap on and lightly shake to impregnate brush to start.

    To use push case over brush to bottom and give a light twist then pull out neck is now inside lubed full length and ready for sizing. When done replace lid and store on shelf. You can use imperial or other oil lubes in it but then cases have to be cleaned to remove them.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Use more lube.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy 55fairlane's Avatar
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    Use more lube!!! Most of the time I have seen this is people not using enough lube

    Have other brands of brass prossesed ok? You could have a defective die....

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    I was using a lot of lube. I ran my fingers through the imperial on every single case. Usually I only have to put imperial on my fingers every 3 cases or so. Not on this brass. It is definitely the resizing ball doing the damage. I can feel a lot of resistance down and up. I did use a qtip and put some imperial inside the neck. It helped some, but the problem persisted. I am wondering if case neck annealing may help? good news is RCBS is sending me the broken part free of charge. Great service.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master slughammer's Avatar
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    Put the broken expander to the side. Install a decapping rod (or 22 cal expander). Size and decap the brass. Then use a Lyman M-die to expand in a separate operation.
    Happiness is a couple of 38's and a bucket of ammo.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I think I found the problem. This is an rcbs x-die. I am sure the mandrel was not adjusted properly as I did not adjust it at all. I put the die in the press like any other die. My guess is the neck mandrel was contacting and deforming the mouth of some case necks. The expander ball then caught the deformity on the up stroke and in some instances ripped or damaged the neck. Watched a youtube video on how to adjust the xdie. Live and learn. I have not used this particular die set in about 10 years.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


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    Glad that you found the issue!!

    Its a lil different than a “reg” die.

    I form three calibers. 7.65, 358 Norma & 300 Blackthe BLK is silly easy. But the other two can be difficult and something as simple as dirty or dry necks can cause large issues.
    You are already you universal depriming, and using Imperial, thats good. Sometimes tumbling wont clean the inside of the necks. I dont wet tumble so I do nOt know if thats better but make sure that the necks are clean and lubed.

    Good luck,

    CW
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Haven't seen this mentioned so here goes. I found that clean brass sizes easily than tarnished dirty brass. So I deprime, clean the PP and recut the flash holes if this is the first time I'm using this bunch of brass. With the basic prep work out of the way all I do is a little smear of Imperial sizing die wax and in and out. I also lube the case mouth by actually scraping off any die wax into the case mouth. To the op and his machine gun fired brass, most times when you get this stuff it has all powder fouling, dirt from the gun and dirt from getting on the ground. Do all your prep work first.Then wash, tumble or do your cleaning second. Insure that case mouths get some lube. I use the Imperial sizing die wax. Smear some on one of the old RCBS pads that were used to lube the cases or even use the rcbs lube on the pad. Put casw mouth on pad and just swirl the case some of the lube will get inside the case mouth to lube it. I've also used powdered moly inside an old medicine container with a good dose of moly powder and some lead shot. Shake it up before using. Make sure the cover is on tight. If you spill it shop vac time. the moly I use is extremely fine and gets all over if you spill it. don't ask how I know. Frank

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I know you think you found the issue but as someone that resized a ton of this stuff for HP competition, try this.

    1 anneal the case neck, this is not the rocket science some people make it out to be. Simply set up a plumbers propane torch sitting on a bench with a medium flame. Grab the brass by the head and rotate the brass with your fingers heating the neck and shoulder area. It may even start to glow, but as long as you don't feel the heat transferring to your fingers your fine. Simply drop the brass in an empty cardboard box, no need to water quench.

    The LC brass is thicker and harder than commercial brass, add in the work hardening and the age hardening and that's why its giving you so many problems. But its worth the effort its really good brass especially for semi autos like an M1a or navy garand that's hard on brass

    2 ditch the SB die., its not necessary and will only cause problems, a standard die will work fine.

    Hope this helps.
    NRA High Master XTC
    DR# 2125

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy

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    akajun tells it like it is, small base dies are a PITA as they greatly increase sizing effort.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    I had hard time with the small base die for what the op stated to use it for the same cases and found out the lube I was usen was not working and I talk with my gunsmith about it and had him take the case out of the die I got stuck in,he told be about Unique lube and try it and no problems after, I do like the idea that was stated about the hard cases to anneal it.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    Ok, I guess I'll just repeat everything everyone else has said.
    I tumble my brass in plain corn cob before sizing. The I run a case neck brush with plain old RCBS Resizing Lube on it. I lube that brush by rubbing over a Lube Pad. I then roll the cases over a Lube Pad, 5 at a time.
    Then I size them in a std resizing die. I've sized .223/5.56 in a RCBS std Full Length die for 40+yrs. I've shot that ammo in a 1976 180 series Mini-14 & a Colt AR-15 interchangeably since 1976. In work in my 20 yr old Armalite AR-15 without a hitch. And in an older REM 700 Varmint & H&R single shot. Although I prefer neck sizing for the REM 700 and H&R. Keep that commercial brass separate.

    Every piece of G.I. brass the gets the lube cleaned off with a acetone soaked rag. The the cases are processed by trimming on a Lyman Power case trimmer. The on the Lyman Case Xpress mounted behind the trimmer, PP reamed, cleaned. Mouth chamfered & deburred. I can process about 3 cases a minute this way.
    Then they go into a sonic cleaner.

    I do .308/7.62 brass the same way for my std M1A and .30-06 for the M1 Garand.

    Never used anything but STD reloading dies for any Military Rifle.

    Small base dies are only needed for the Browning BAR ,
    REM 7400/7600, WIN 100/88 and Savage 99.
    And then only on a case by case basis.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    RCBS SB die is fine. It just sizes down the base farther. Trick is good lube, multiple passes to size a case. Do half way, hold for a sec., rotate and repeat. LC MG is large at base (and the rest of the chamber) base is thickest brass. Holding for a second reduces spring back of the brass. Brass is annealed several times during manufacture, stamping work hardens it. Neck is annealed last, for proper neck tension and to prevent shoulder cracks. The shoulder/neck area has the most stress on it.
    Whatever!

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


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    "Small base dies are only needed for the Browning BAR ,
    REM 7400/7600, WIN 100/88 and Savage 99.
    And then only on a case by case basis."


    Bingo, give the man a cigar!

    I have sized thousands of LC cases (Match, M80 ball and M118SB) In standard .308W dies without any problems. Milsurp cases bought "once fired" through surplus sources have most often (probably 99.9999999% of the time) been fired in machine guns. The cases are indeed harder and thicker than commercial cases and also have expanded more because of the generous chambers in MGs and because of the rapid firing. Thus they will take more effort to size in a regular size die and even greater effort in a SB die. I have FL sized thousands of LC cases the last 12 - 15 years (from when ever RCBS first made the X-die) exclusively in a RCBS standard .308W X-Die. I have never had a single chambering issue in any rifle, even some of those that supposedly require a SB die.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Ditto to Larry's comment. Experienced this myself. Sometimes linked ammo will leave a stain where the links touch the brass.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub Barman54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaboltm View Post
    I am using once fired LC 7.62 brass. It was deprimed with a Lee universal and then pin tumbled.

    To resize I was using a RCBS small base die and imperial sizing lube. I was meeting firm resistance at the base, but that was expected as this is likely machine gun brass. What surprised me was that on occasion on the upstroke I would either partially or totally rip off the entire neck. It is very tough getting a whole neck removed. On the last attempt I broke the threaded rod.

    I have loaded a lot of LC brass and never had this problem. Suggestions?
    OK
    This is how I size .308/7.62 Brass, no matter how it is fired

    Clean Brass, Deprime, as some primers are hard to remove on the Sizing Process.
    Lube and Size using a 30.06 Die, with the De capping Pin still in, leave the lube still on the cases.
    Prior to sizing anything I use Imperial Sizing Lube to "Lube" the Die.
    I use a Q-Tip, roll some on it, and apply it to the Die directly, on the bottom half, and the expanding ball.
    Occasionally, I remove my Decapping pin, wipe it off, reapply with Imp. Lube, as it gets dirty.
    The re lube and run them in your .308 Die, your preference, X Die, Sml Base, Regular, as the previous step has made the base of the .308 case smaller, that is the problem.
    I had to go to a Sml Base Die on my S. Match 1A, as it has a Tight Chamber on my new Barrel, installed a Couple of years ago.
    The original and the 2nd no problem, my new 3rd Barrel, yes.
    Before that never used a Sml Base Die, Depends on your Barrel's Chamber?


    This is from a 25+ Year HighPower Shooter, who still uses the M1A (Re-inactor) Rifle, yes I have shot the AR, just like using the M1A.

    I can size Range Pick up from other's Rifles, and get many firings from them, without any problems.
    I get over 6+ loadings on my Reloads in my M1A. as I can shoot them either of the several I have, does not matter.


    Barman54
    Out

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub Barman54's Avatar
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    One Final Point
    I use Imperial Sizing Wax, as Noted, along with Dillion Sizing Lube, or my Remake of it.

    Good Luck

    Barman54
    Out

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I was trying to resize them to .243 years ago. I ended up using that additive for engines S.T.P. Don't laugh, it works. Very thick.. 700 LATER..

  20. #20
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    Switch to Forster dies as they have the expander nipple in the right place.

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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