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Thread: 6.5 Carcano load data help, please

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    6.5 Carcano load data help, please

    I recently picked up a 91/38 Carcano Troop Special Carbine in the 6.5 Carcano caliber. The rifle is in very good condition, especially the bore. Barrel measures 17 and a fraction inches long. It should have the traditional .268" groove diameter, meaning I will probably have to Beagle any .266" diameter mold I might find (have nothing in this diameter now). If anyone on this site has past experience in loading the 6.5 Carcano caliber would you please share your experiences, in detail. I would appreciate hearing about your mold ID, powder choice and load weight, and any other details you could add in to the mix. Many thanks.

    Thin Man
    Last edited by Thin Man; 01-30-2019 at 07:18 AM. Reason: Clearer ID of caliber for readers

  2. #2
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    I have a small quantity of PPU brass if you need it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    What is the rifling twist rate? My first carbine was a converted rifle that had gain twist rifling. It would not hit a target at 25 yards. I eventually re-barreled to 7.62x39 and made it a single shot. It was a fun shooter.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    The 91/38 should be made during or after 1940. It should have a constant rate twist. NOE has molds that cast large enough. I have used data in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for the 6.5 Mannlicher to get started.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Pressman, I suspect my carbine is also a converted rifle. It is marked Beretta Gardone, is dated '41 and was used very little. The stock and handguard are excellent and the metal has only slight dulling of the finish that appears original. Color case hardening on the bolt is present. It wears fixed sights (rumored to be regulated for 200 yards) and no bayonet lug or nose cap at the front of the stock and handguard. There is no evidence these were ever present. I read earlier that another Carcano owner could not get his rifle to regulate between the point of aim and impact, but solved this riddle with the manufacture of a replacement front sight. When I finally get loads assembled I will learn if this will be my fate as well.

  6. #6
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    ...........Thin Man, I'm going to guess your Carcano has fixed iron sights as most did. The Italians were actually smart having these sights in that they were battle rifles meant to shoot at tall slender targets. They were also aware that anticipated combat took place at ranges to 3 -400 yards. As a consequence the troops were trained to 'Hold' for various estimated ranges. For ranges to about 100 yards/meters they buried the front sight in the rear 'V'. Naturally as the range increased they would hold the front blade higher in the V notch.

    Recommended to me, and for shooting at the range it is more accurate and easier to hold the front blade even with the top of the 'V' rear sight. For use at 100 yards the front blade needs to be taller. This is simply accomplished by using some JB Weld epoxy compound.



    This is the front sight blade for my M38, 7.35 Carcano. Once the epoxy is setup, simply file the blade to shape leaving it's height alone until you can get to the range. At the range is where you'd file the blade down to get your group where you want it. The epoxy is not permanent, and is simply removed at a later date with a bit of heat.

    ...............Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Buckshot, did you "rough up" the original sight to get the J-B Weld to tack or did it bond without this step? I would also wonder about it's durability, if the sight should happen to catch the odd "impact" in regular handling would the weld area tend to hold together or fracture away. I would appreciate your thoughts on these points, and thanks.

  8. #8
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    ...........I didn't rough up the existing blade. I'd doubt that the epoxy would stand up to being banged against something. I never had any problems with it, but I only shot it at the range. I should add that it's not exactly fragile, but it's not as stout as the original

    ................Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

    Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.

    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    JB Weld is surprisingly tough on front sights---I've done a couple and they hold up really well. Most other epoxies, not so much...

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
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    I've got a 91/38 cav. carbine with fixed sights. My mold is an old Herter's 26145. It looks to be a Lyman 266469 clone. It casts to .265 @ 144gr WW+T. Loaded over 14gr of 2400 gives me an average 1520fps. OAL is 2.94" with a mild crimp. At 50 yards it prints between 2 to 2 1/2 ", 7" high, 2" to the right. By comparison I can keep a Hornady .267, 160gr inside an 8" bull @ 200 yards POA.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master semtav's Avatar
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    Altho I have both a rifle and a carbine, I have only shot the rifle.
    the load I used :

    BRP 268469 mould I got on a group buy here. ( similar to the Kurtz bullet)
    270 gas checks
    15 gr 4227
    BR-2 Primers

    Didn't write down the OAL for this particular load but it was about 2.90

    Shot real well at the local military matches.

  12. #12
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I really liked mine gave to a cousin and wish i still had it. I always thought these guns got a bad rap mine shot really good. It has been so long not really sure what my loads were.

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
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    I am a carcano fanboi.....and IMHO they do get a really bad rap....and that usually comes from uneducated people. First problem is the bullet size. I know of NO ONE that makes the correct size and profile for 6.5 carcano. The bullets that partizan uses (the only guys that I know of that make new ammo for them) use a spitzer, and carcano was never issued with a pointy bullet. The 7.35 version did get the pointy bullet but it is also an odd duck using a true 30 cal bullet, 300 not the normal 308 or 311 stuff that is pretty common. But the 30 carcano is a bit of an odd duck not many of them got made, Italy did not have the ability to switch rifles in the middle of the war....heck they did not have the ability to go to war in the first place, but that is a topic for a different day.

    I have never cast for carcano, and the only good bullet I know is the one made by Hornady, it is the correct profile (bottle nose) and size.

    Carcano action is not the most strong out there, so keep that in mind....and inside the bolt the safety is prone to cracking, so I would take the bolt apart and give it a good look over before shooting it.

    I have always said (on other forums, this is like my second post here) that Carcano is on par with every other service rifle at that time....if everything else is in like shape. I really enjoy them, they are interesting history, and one of the few surplus arms that has not gone insane yet.

  14. #14
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Did norma stop making them?

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
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    look at Graf and sons for jacketed bullets they have/had three listed with .268dia, weights from 129-160gr. as for cast NOE has a few molds that drop big that should work, they work for the Vetterli M1870/87/15, which uses the same ammo as the 6.5 Carcano.
    What is happiness "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!"
    Conan the Barbarian

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    Just added a Carcano. Thanks for the information. Ever bit helps.

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    6,5 carcano

    Hello,
    for the carcano the ONLY safe powders (tested in the pressure gauge) are: tubal5000 , tubal 8000 and IMR H414. if you want I will send you the doses in private . Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bordin.jpg 
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ID:	253334 . everything is well explained in this book in Italian ..... some original balls that I measured are 6.75mm (.266) so the .268 hornady in my opinion are not very suitable. I am also testing a 6.5 mod 38 carcano with a constant pitch barrel. the real problem of the carcano is that it has very deep lines (0.15mm). therefore the powders to be used are those above also the w760 is not good.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	253335 . For example in the drawing of the kynoch the ball of the carcano goes from 6.76 to 6.78mm !!! the barrel of my carcano is drilled at 6.83, can you tell me what your internal diameter is?
    Regards
    Bruno

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check