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Thread: Talked my buddy out of getting the 6.5 Creedmoor

  1. #81
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    My new 700 ADL 6.5 cost all of $430.00 brand new, more like $390.00 once I Fleabayed the cheapo scope and mounts it came with. Some variants of the Axis, 783, and Ruger American actually sell for more than that. Because my rifle is a 700, the options are limitless and I will always be able to find parts for it.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  2. #82
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    This is what give a rifle pride of ownership for me. Deer was taken at around 200 yards by my range finder. Hit twice with the 2nd shot not necessary. Boyd's stock because that's what folks on this site said to use to make it quit stringing vertically. I had an old 700 Remington in 270 that would maybe shoot as well as this inexpensive Axis. It had the walnut stock but very ugly pressed checkering.

    As far as how well they shoot? Frank Marshall in discussing hunting with cast bullets in deer rifles mad the comment "At some point you have to ask yourself whether you want to shoot deer or cockroaches at 100 yards". There is a point of the ridiculous when we discuss accuracy these days. My old Marlin 35 Remington will not group an inch but I often think that I should hunt with it more. Sub MOA is very impressive off the bench and maybe can impress friends, but when I shot muzzle loading competition I would hear many brag about their groups but could barely hit the targets when shooting off hand. I could because I practiced and even sighted in some of the rifles I built off hand. Hunting conditions for many of us do not provide convenient benches.

    Also Ferguson is correct about the 6.5 CM. I can buy whatever type of ammo I want for it with less expense than for any other 6.5 calibers and especially for the 257 Roberts. Its about the same thing.

    DEP
    Last edited by northmn; 02-08-2019 at 10:38 AM.

  3. #83
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Not to mention, you can easily form brass out of .22-250!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  4. #84
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    CDNN has Marlin XS7s in .243 for $<$250. Not made anymore but for a budget rifle they are pretty in my eyes at least. If I was shopping for a budget rifle, I'd consider that one. The only thing I have against the Axis is the looks. Same for the Rem 783. The Compass is ok except for the bolt handle, the 770 is homliest of all. The Ruger with the flush mag looks ok. They would all look better with wood stocks but then you start worrying about scratching them! These rifles are the modern incarnations of the Remington 788 and the Savage 340 and the Savage 110E- budget rifles that shoot very well.
    If you can get your friend into hand loading, that Tikka .270 will not disappoint! I have three in various calibers and they are crazy accurate. My .02 only amigos.
    TbG

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  5. #85
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmer View Post
    I'm nibbling on the idea or maybe finding an old Savage. I think a rebore is in my future. Does the compass have a thick enough barrel to be taken out to 35 cal?
    If you go Savage you can buy a new barrel in the caliber you want for the price of having it rebored.
    And then sell the old barrel if you want to save even more.
    I have $80 in a used barrel nut wrench and action wrench and new go gauge I and can change the barrel to whatever suits my fancy.
    Funny thing is it now sports the original 30-06 barrel that it came with.


    " My people skills are just fine. It's my tolerance for idiots that needs work."

  6. #86
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    What really got the 6.5 Creedmoor going was that Hornady match grade ammunition is readily available. I know of long range competition shooters that have nice reloading facilities but they buy their 6.5 CM ammo. As said, ballistically it's very close to the 6.5 Swede and the .260 Rem, neither of which has match ammo available over the counter. I built a 6.5 Swede on a M98 action about the time the CM was introduced. Had I know of the CM at the time I think I would have gone with that cartridge. The deer, blackbuck and countless feral hogs I've shot went down the same with the 6.5 Swede brass holding the bullet the same as they would have with any other cartridge holding the same bullet. There are any number of cartridges that in practice aren't enough different to matter in a hunting situation but for long range competition the 6.5mm caliber bullets have some highly desirable Btaken Cs and all that goes with the high BCs.

    The loads I shoot in my 6.5 have been developed to match the bullet drop reticle in the scope rather than for maximum accuracy. (They still shoot under 3/4".) At a long range practice area I took multiple shots at each distance on 8" steel discs at 100/200/300/400/500 with no misses at any range. Shots past 500 were more challenging because I'm happy with the scope the way it is and didn't want to start messing with it just for a few shots at 600 and 1000. I used my buddy's CM for the 1000 yd. shots and it worked beautifully. He's shot a steel copy of a USPSA head and shoulders target at a mile with the CM and a Nightforce scope.

    Don, as hard as it is for me to discourage someone from buying a gun they want and as especially hard as it is for me to admit since he wanted a 6.5 anything, you did the right thing with your friend.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  7. #87
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    nope but there are even more guns available for the grand old 308 or even 243 that is every bit as good. Now you might not find match grade ammo at Walmart but then again your not buying match grade CM ammo for 20 bucks a box either. Ammo can be found cheaper yet and even at Walmart.
    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Exactly!! I'm still waiting for the Creedmoor haters to tell me on which planet one can find a sub-MOA rifle for under $300.00 and $20.00 a box ammo in stock at every cheap mart for the 6.5x55, .260 Remington, .264 Win mag, 6.5 Mannlicher, and so on. 'Cause that ain't happening on planet Earth.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a cartridge nerd as anybody else. I paid more to have a rifle rebarreled to .257 Roberts than I could have bought any of the various super accurate budget rifles. Why? Because none of them are chambered in the grand old .257 and a barrel job on a rifle I already own was still alot cheaper than any of the few rifles still made in this cartridge. Also, my most recent reloading purchase was for some new .38 Long Colt brass!

  8. #88
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    in what world is shooting more ammo for the same cost a bad thing. I guess a guy could by a 300 wby and a 75 dollar box of ammo and shot 2 rounds a year and call it good. Id have to say 90 percent of us here load and cast so we can shoot more. Not so we can whip up a cheap box of shells to last 3 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by McFred View Post
    So, he's bound to save money shooting .223? Haha. Just like reloading to save money right? The way my mind works if I was going to shoot regularly, choosing a cheaper to shoot round would just have me shoot even more since I know in the end it costs about the same.

    Sure, have him buy a 6.5 Seymour and shoot it a bunch then say, "Hey for what you're spending now you could shoot twice as much with a .223!" then get another rifle and even more ammo. Friends are supposed to enable frivolous purchases.

  9. #89
    Boolit Master
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    LOL the slippery slope of shooting. Buy rifle, buy ammo, shoot some. Buy cheaper ammo. Doesn't shoot as well. Get a Lee Loader. Reload some ammo and shoot some even more. Loader too slow, buy a press. Shoot some more. Single stage too slow. Buy progressive press. Load and shoot even more. Changing calibers takes too much time, buy another press. Shoot even more.

    About this time wife starts complaining about you not doing the lawn or fixing the leaking faucet

    And now the next big step, bullets cost too much. Buy a cast iron pot and start casting your own. Another slippery slope.

    PS yes, if you are shooting 100 rounds a year it does not pay to reload, even if you shoot match ammo.

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    nope but there are even more guns available for the grand old 308 or even 243 that is every bit as good. Now you might not find match grade ammo at Walmart but then again your not buying match grade CM ammo for 20 bucks a box either. Ammo can be found cheaper yet and even at Walmart.
    I was referring specifically to the critics who dismiss the 6.5 on the basis that it doesn't offer any additional performance over the older .264 rounds. The Creedmoor is the only realistic choice in 6.5 cartridges for someone who wants a new low cost rifle and readily available factory ammo- which describes the majority of hunting rifle buyers today.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    I was referring specifically to the critics who dismiss the 6.5 on the basis that it doesn't offer any additional performance over the older .264 rounds. The Creedmoor is the only realistic choice in 6.5 cartridges for someone who wants a new low cost rifle and readily available factory ammo- which describes the majority of hunting rifle buyers today.
    Very well said!

  12. #92
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    ya and for the same price you can buy an identical 06 and even cheaper more available ammo. I guess if your stuck on a 6.5 you can use your point but theres no magic in 6.5 calibers for hunting and cost of factory ammo doesn't mean squat to most of us here. gather some brass for any cartridge and the cost of loading isn't going to vary much unless your talking big magnums. Nothing wrong with the creedmore. I just don't understand the almost rabid fan boys it has spawned. Want cheap factory ammo buy a 243 or 308 and go to Walmart and buy some corelocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    I was referring specifically to the critics who dismiss the 6.5 on the basis that it doesn't offer any additional performance over the older .264 rounds. The Creedmoor is the only realistic choice in 6.5 cartridges for someone who wants a new low cost rifle and readily available factory ammo- which describes the majority of hunting rifle buyers today.

  13. #93
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    I will say that my next rifle will probably be a 6.5CM. Why? I shoot paper and the 6.5 dia seems to be the perfect match of ballistics and lighter recoil. I love my .223 but it just not handle wind well. The .308 is great but the recoil is more of a factor.

    Yes, other 6.5's will do fine but the CM has just about the best case capacity for most shooting without making a barrel burner. The 6.5x47 is very close as well but the case capacity is just a bit too small.

    Yes, others will work but are either oversize (.260 or 6.5x55) or are made for velocities that will erode barrels faster, eg, the 6.5-284.

    So, there is a reason the CM works for some people. If I hunted I probably would not use it. I'd stick with my .308 or .30-06. The .270 and 7x57 are also excellent for most NA game. Tons of other choices but those would be my choices.

  14. #94
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    Supposedly, if you are shooting paper, the 6 CM is going to supplant the 6.5. They both may have an advantage for target shooting because beause of being offered in target specific configurations, whereas most 260 Rems and 243 Wins are set up as hunting rifles.

  15. #95
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    ya and for the same price you can buy an identical 06 and even cheaper more available ammo. I guess if your stuck on a 6.5 you can use your point but theres no magic in 6.5 calibers for hunting and cost of factory ammo doesn't mean squat to most of us here. gather some brass for any cartridge and the cost of loading isn't going to vary much unless your talking big magnums. Nothing wrong with the creedmore. I just don't understand the almost rabid fan boys it has spawned. Want cheap factory ammo buy a 243 or 308 and go to Walmart and buy some corelocks.
    No, there is no magic to any cartridge other than personal preference. There is not a thing wrong with the .243, .270, .308, and '06 other than they just don't appeal to me. The .25's and .26's are (in my eyes) the sweet spot between the .24's and .30's in terms of bullet weight, accuracy, and mild recoil. The fact that the hordes of fanboys have caused the 6.5 Creedmoor to have a plethora of rifles, ammo, and components to come available makes it that much more appealing.

    'Nother thing: nobody talks about this, but the Creedmoor really shines with reduced loads. Makes sense, given that it's grampa is the .250 Savage. My fave is the 140 grain Sierra over 32 grains IMR 8208 for ~2400 fps. Super accurate, doesn't heat up the barrel much, easy and fun to shoot. What's not to like?
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  16. #96
    Boolit Grand Master
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    it fits in my ar 10 perfectly
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    I was referring specifically to the critics who dismiss the 6.5 on the basis that it doesn't offer any additional performance over the older .264 rounds. The Creedmoor is the only realistic choice in 6.5 cartridges for someone who wants a new low cost rifle and readily available factory ammo- which describes the majority of hunting rifle buyers today.
    ^^+1 I'm a big fan of the 6.5 Swede but don't see many in the price range of the Axis. For a rifle that you want to shoot your meat for the winter and don't need to worry about a scratch or ding I can't think of much better.
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

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  18. #98
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    ya and for the same price you can buy an identical 06 and even cheaper more available ammo.

    True but for those of us that are not fans of recoil the 6.5 kicks less. My idea is to use the lightest recoiling rifle that will get the job done. No need to bring a
    375 H&H Mag moose hunting when my 35 Rem Lever will do just fine. I don't need to prove anything to anyone at the range or in the woods.
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    so your saying two deer hit in the exact same spot in the vitals, one by a 250 sav and one by a 6.5 creedmore both wont die. the 250 and 243 will efficiently take deer out to 300 yards and do it with even less recoil. Personaly if im going to go out intending to kill something that actually bleeds out past 300 yards its time to break out the big guns. 06 for starters but more likely the 264 257 wby and various 7 and 30 mags. Yup they all kick more. But im not showing up at the Daytona 500 with a prius and expecting to win either. Every night we do crop damage we find out what field where hunting first so we know the distances were likely to shoot at and bring the proper tool. Not the lightest hammer that can get the job done. the proper hammer. Never once in 12 years of doing it have I ever said to myself, Lloyd you took to much gun. Been many occasions ive passed on shots because i didn't bring enough gun. Sorry but recoil NEVER is even a consideration in my decision. So in all reality its just another 250,243, 6mm,257,260,757,6.5x55. Just another 300 yard deer rifle. Nothing more nothing less. id like to even do a comparison between the 6.5 creedmore shooting a 140 to my 240 wby or 2506 shooting a 100-105 in both recoil and flatness out to say 500 yards. Past that isn't even important to anyone hunting. Personaly ive put down a dump truck load of deer with those two between 300 and 400 yards. Past Not even one single bruise on my arm either. My hunting partners 14 year old granddaughter hunts with a 2506 and ive never once heard her even mention recoil. Now maybe and I mean maybe because I think its marginal at best it might qualify as the lightest kicking elk rifle a guy could buy if you loaded it with barnes or partitions. but even in that case the 2506 has killed a lot of elk too.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    ya and for the same price you can buy an identical 06 and even cheaper more available ammo.

    True but for those of us that are not fans of recoil the 6.5 kicks less. My idea is to use the lightest recoiling rifle that will get the job done. No need to bring a
    375 H&H Mag moose hunting when my 35 Rem Lever will do just fine. I don't need to prove anything to anyone at the range or in the woods.

  20. #100
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    How 'bout we all shoot what we want and be happy?
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

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