"you can reload for me”
That turns my stomach when someone says that.
Don, keep steering him right.
"you can reload for me”
That turns my stomach when someone says that.
Don, keep steering him right.
More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"
Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.
"Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar
I don't understand the hate for the 6.5 Creedmoor anymore than I understand the extreme hype for it. It's a good cartridge that has done what all of those other 6.5s haven't. Become mainstream enough to be available in most rifles, including cheaper budget rifles. As much as I'd like to, I can't recall ever seeing a 6.5x55 or a 260 being available in a brand new $250 rifle.
All I know is mine shoots 1/2" groups and puts meat on the table. Not bad for a $250 T/C Compass.
______________________________________________
Aaron
I don't have hate for a Creedmoor at all. It's a wonderful cartridge. What bothers me is people thinking the can take a 500yd shot at deer that don't understand trajectory. I'm not a fan of wounding animals.
Most hunters have the same chance of hitting a 8" steel plate @ 500yds first shot from a bench as they do winning the lottery.
If you are a member here and reload then you probably have a good understanding of what it takes. There are just a lot of people that think if you have a Creedmoor that all that's needed. There is a lot of knowledge and skills in a humane 500yd shot at game
Well,Don, I think you did the right thing.
"In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'
The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery
NRA Benefactor 2008
jonp, what amazes me is that these cheap rifles shoot so very well. It is not just one or two flukes, but seemingly common!!. I rgot a notice from Aim Surplus this week of a recent shipment of Mosin's and to not "miss out". Prices were $340-360. Why anyone would purchase one of these things for target work or hunting is beyond my comprehension. Maybe the preppers made them popular when they were really cheap but at current prices, they make no sense.
Anyway, I admit to being a gun snob. The only reason I bought the Compass was due to good reviews from people on this forum who I know are not idiots. My 308 M70 Coyote was getting too heavy for me to carry around so I wanted a gun that was lighter and that I could carry around in the woods without worrying about scratching up.
As to the 6.5 CR, I do not hate it at all. A local guy wanted to buy one for his daughter and asked me about it. I told him it was a great choice and I did the internet search for him to get one at a good price.
But like I said originally, buying one as a hunting rifle if you already have a .270 does not make sense to me.
Don Verna
Don's statement is spot on. I just feel a hunter that is missing with a 270 is not going to become a crack shot because he bought a 6.5
I have no hate for the 6.5, just not something I have much need for to invest in yet another rifle, brass, bullets, dies, etc. But yea it is a bit over hyped, but they do it with everything. My neighbor other day was asking if I had seen the 6.5 at the shop? Yea several, one he was in love with was one painted with the American flag. So it was more the paint job than anything else. But guess the sort those pushing the 6.5 love, not very knowledgable, and easy to sway. He would have zero use for such a rifle, like it would kill deer in these dense woods any better than his 30-06.
People are funny, had an old marine buddy ask advice on a new rifle. 243 or 25-06? Stupidly I put some research into it, pros and cons. Could have just flipped a coin and he would have picked the opposite. Or was just wasting my time as he wanted the 25-06 anyways. He lives in Fla, has COPD, so really when is he gonna need the extra ummph of the 25-06 over the 243? Got back to me next day how flat shooting it was. Yea whatever like he even aimed it at something past 50yds to sight it in to know how flat shooting it is.
Shot a creedmore last Sunday three rounds into half an inch at a 100 yards.sweet made me think I could shoot ! Personally if I wanted a 6.5 I'd buy a 260 rem for the cheap brass options !
The only, and I mean only difference in a short and long action, is the length of the bolt stroke, one is not easier to shoot than the other. The cartridge in a long action may take more managing, but the thought that a long action is harder to shoot than a short action is ridiculous. Most short action calibers, ,.204, .222, .223,.22-250, .243, 6.5CM, .308 are all short action rounds, most of these are very mild recoiling, when compared to a 30/06, 270, 280, 338 and .300 win mag, but if all else is equal, and the shooter is up to the task, no difference. I can give you an example, I have 4 Savage long actions, one a .22-250, one a .223 single shot and a .204 I built on a long action and fitted a homemade single shot follower to it along with a different bolt head, and a .243 that is a factory sporter barrel, I put on a 30/06 stagger feed, which is what all Savages used to be. All 4 guns shoot bugholes at 100 yds, the average for the 22-250 is about .460 for 5 shots with a handload, nothing done to it but sand the barrel channel out and adjust the trigger. The .223 shoots between .500-.600 with any good factory ammo, and into .380 for the custom handload for 5 shot groups. The .204 shoots Factory Hornady .40gr V max into .300 of an inch, give or take, but mostly under .300, which is outstanding for factory ammo, but it does have a custom barrel, pac nor and surface ground 1/4" recoil lug. The .243 will shoot 3 of my handloads into a ragged hole about .270 and put 5 into .400! Now given that these long actions don't shoot as good as short actions, according to Sig556r, tell me how they outshoot a couple of Remington short actions that have been bedded, triggers went thru and the barrel recrowned.? Now I am not one to brag, but the fact is over the past 30 years, I have shot between 3000-5000 rounds a year of centerfire ammo and ML projectiles, as a gunsmith zeroing a bunch of rifles I work on or just zero for folks who don't know how, hunting and informal benchrest, and in local, state and National muzzleloading competition. I say this to prove a point, often it is the operator, that is not shooting a certain round, type rifle, or length action better than the other. In 1996 or so, Precision Shooting ran a 2 part article on Savage Arms. The biggest part of the article focused on the 110 long action, since that was nearly all they were making, some with spacers put into them for the short action rounds. When asked why they did not any longer make a short action, they stated that for two reasons. One in their extensive tests, they found that the short stiff action, WAS NOT AS ACCURATE AS THE LONG ACTION, BECAUSE IT DID NOT ALLOW THE ACTION TO FLEX AS IT WANTED TO WHEN FIRING HIGH VELOCITY SHORT ACTION ROUNDS, SUCH AS THE 22-250 AND THE .220 SWIFT! The second reason, was economy, why produce an action, that was not going to shoot as good as there standard action, and loose customers! This was at the time when everyone was clamoring for a Savage short action, so they gave in and started producing the short action, while being very careful to heat treat the short actions, so they did not warp, and shoot as good as the long action. l am not sure of the year, but definitely know it was before 98 that I read these stories, and it made a world of sense to me, as I had the long action .22=250 and .223 single shot since 1991.
i agree with much of what has been said here. if a guy only shoots a box of shells a year, he doesnt need anything else, other than more trigger time. on the other hand, and miniscule reason for a new gun is enough, because need has nothing to do with it!
If one wants to argue pure ballistics then we should all buy a 30-06 and forget about it. A rifle should be enjoyable to shoot. When I would sight in my 243 it was enjoyable. I just wanted to shoot it more. A more powerful rifle doe not do that much for me. My Creedmoor is close in that regard. I felt for my uses the 243 might be a little on the light side as I lost a deer using it. Should not have lost it, but it left a sour taste in my mouth. Broke a shoulder and it looked like the bullet blew up on the shoulder and did not penetrate far enough. I admit to doing some stupid stuff and its easy to blame the caliber. It ruined my run of one shot for about 8 or 10 deer. I have had a lot of 2 shot seasons, one to see if I am still sighted in and one for the deer. Another story.
I enjoy mostly lever actions like my 30-30 and especially the old 35R. I also like to experiment with different calibers. If I were smart I would sell all but 2 rifles as I like to have a backup, and go my merry way, but that is no fun. I bought the 6.5CM because I wanted a 257 Roberts and it was and is very close with no practical difference on deer. The 257 R offerings were very expensive and ammo is expensive and hard to find at times. So I go back to my original argument. What we shoot should be enjoyable. I have read ballistic tables since I was in high school and am now retired. I don't read magazines anymore because I could write the articles myself and they are nothing more than an advertisement for the test product. Its fun just to shoot something different once in a while.
DEP
Talking your friend out of a(nother) gun just got rid of another American job. You say he's got money? Convince him to get another gun and enough ammo to burn out the barrel. That will get him to shoot more, get proper experience, maybe even enjoy himself and the profit will go to Americans working in the industry instead of a Chinese electronics manufacturer or a Mexican auto maker or some useless movie company in the People's Republic of California.
Sure, I'm being dramatic but if he's got the money and inclination, what's the harm in getting more stuff, even if it's redundant? Lots of households have piles of redundant stuff. More than one car, more than one television, more than one bathroom... This is America having choice is not a bad thing.
Personally think the op's friend needs a quality 22LR, like a Sako or Win 52 sporter. But then I think everybody needs a good 22! Agree the 6.5 is redundant to the 270 but then it is more efficient. Something to be said for that. Need to find something he likes to do to get more trigger time, whatever that is.
“You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos
I'd sure shoot one if someone gave me a rifle chambered in 6.5CM and I don't even drink Bud Light.
I have a nice 7mm-08, 6.5CM seems almost redundant but I suspect I'll own one of them too eventually.
Mcfred you missed the part where he saved the job by talking said friend into a .223 instead of a 6.5 Creed.....has anyone noticed how expensive 6.5 bullets are due to the Creedmore/ Grendel popularity?
They certainly should talk them out of buying the wrong gun and wasting money on pieces of junk.
And I fully believe most shooters would be better served by spending some more money on training/ammo vs another new gun.
I am more than happy to help spend someone else’s money but I have seen too many people waste money buying guns that don’t work for them.
Just talked to a friend today, he was excited and asked me if I knew anything about a VSKA AK47.
I had never heard of it.
He said they are built in the US out of special materials for government contracts, bells start ringing in my ears at the market speak.
Then he mentions Century Arms and I give him a few minute lecture on the company that gives drunken monkeys a bad name.
Turns out he has bought one of the blasted things already.
I wasted some of my time reading the few actual reviews/tests of them, doesn’t look much better than I expected.
I sure wish he had called me before dropping over $600 on anything Century Arms built.
Although knowing him he probably would have bought it any way.
Old PT Barnum sure was right.
But, but but space age materials, defense department, fired 15,000 rounds without blowing up, its got to be awesome, I need one.
Oh well.
Now the Canik pistols that Century Arms is importing have done nothing but impress me.
I have become a bit of a shill for them, but with full disclosure of my concerns of a new import, limited after market support, unknown long term reliability, and dealing with Century arms.
But performance for the price I don’t think they can be beat, at least for a range toy.
Not sure I would trust them as a defensive gun, but then again I just got my Ruger LCP II back from the mothership in AZ after the slide flew off while shooting it.
And it was my EDC.
Not sure you could do much worse than that.
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Century Arms, Yes they have made a few boat anchors in the past.
I gotta say though, I bought an FAL 308 from them and it ran real good after I fixed the rough uni brow feed ramp that looked like a wash board.
6.5 CM I've heard it will make you into a sniper.
So, he's bound to save money shooting .223? Haha. Just like reloading to save money right? The way my mind works if I was going to shoot regularly, choosing a cheaper to shoot round would just have me shoot even more since I know in the end it costs about the same.
Sure, have him buy a 6.5 Seymour and shoot it a bunch then say, "Hey for what you're spending now you could shoot twice as much with a .223!" then get another rifle and even more ammo. Friends are supposed to enable frivolous purchases.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |