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Thread: Minimum velocity using a 255 grain WFN boolit out of my vaquero for whitetail

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Minimum velocity using a 255 grain WFN boolit out of my vaquero for whitetail

    Probably 75 yards or under would be my max shot. Im guessing I would need at least 850 FPS with the proper shot placement to get it done?
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-26-2019 at 11:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Tom_in_AZ's Avatar
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    Id say 850 would be plenty


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    For perspective, a few years back I was muzzleloader elk hunting with a 260 gr SWC boolit in a sabot and got a huge cow elk (live weight over 500#) from about 50 yards. My estimated impact velocity was about 1200 fps. The last image I had before smoke filled the scene was that elk completely off the ground with hooves rotating skyward. I agree with the above that 850 terminal velocity will work just fine.

  4. #4
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    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Good morning
    Corn Crunchers have been popped with a whole lot less and become the evening meal. The old 44WCF BP loads with a 220 grainer go clean through bean eaters hit in the chest.
    Been using a 52# recurve bow for 20+ years and with a good slice through the breathers it is just a matter of time and following the trail.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    In my new Vaquero I’ve run different 250/255 boolits at anywhere from 925 to 1075 fps. Some are hollow pointed.
    Observations
    Distances traveled after the shot are about the same no matter which boolit I use. The HPs leave a little better blood trail if they exit. If they don’t blood trail is generally pretty scimpy but not very long. I quite often see them go down. 75 yds is my farthest blood trail so far.

    Perspective
    Ive killed 2 deer with a 58 Rem cap and ball. Shooting the Lee 452-200 RF cast pure with a full cylinder of FFFg. Velocity was 700 fps. These deer acted no different than if I had been using my more powerful rounds.

    Where you put the little hole is far more important than what you put it with.
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Am I better off picking up a Lee 200 grain mold? Keep thinking I’d pick up velocity with keeping pressures low. Looking at the 200 grain RF. I see there’s a 160 grain RF offering but figured that might be too light?
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-27-2019 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    You will be better off with the 255WFN.

  8. #8
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    You'd be better off with the heavier bullet. But a 200gr SWC through the ribs at about 1000fps would do the job also.
    Doug
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    Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

    Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting

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  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master



    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Good afternoon
    I would also agree with the 255 observation. You live where corn crunchers can be Big. Cold where the hide gets thick.
    I have not heard about 255 grainers that did not exit with side to side chest hits. A 200 grain may get through the chest only to get stopped by the far side hide. Corn Cruncher hide is tough on an exiting slug. Take a blunt stick sometime and try to push it through. Even a dull knife point will remind you forgot to sharpen your knife.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  10. #10
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    IF you worried about impact velocity you could always get a 44 magnum. 250 grains at 1100fps WOULD give you a tad better chance at blowing through the deer LENGTHWISE....

    keeping your shots short is all that you can really do to optimize chances of catching a deer. One wise handgun hunter once posited in a hunting guide article with this:

    Handgun hunting is just like hunting with a bow, short range and quick shots taken.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    250 @ 1100fps is very doable in a strong 45lc...
    Doug
    .................................................. ........................................
    Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

    Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting

    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankycalico View Post
    IF you worried about impact velocity you could always get a 44 magnum. 250 grains at 1100fps WOULD give you a tad better chance at blowing through the deer LENGTHWISE....

    keeping your shots short is all that you can really do to optimize chances of catching a deer. One wise handgun hunter once posited in a hunting guide article with this:

    Handgun hunting is just like hunting with a bow, short range and quick shots taken.
    I own 4, 44 mags but wanted to play around my my new model vaquero 45 colt. I believe 20,000 psi is the limit for this model but didn’t want to have to go over the level one, 13k loads everyone listed so I’m not beating up my cowboy pistol. Just figured it I take it out some time I’d like to know the ammo i end up loading is deer harvesting capable. I have some 250 grain RNFP factory loaded ammo with a velocity of 750 FPS. I would ammume this will also get the job done out to 75 yards? I know it’s a little on the slow side.

  13. #13
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    new model vaquero, always heard to load em like a genuine colt.

    that factory ammo probably shouldn't get used past 50 yards..

    original 45 colt loads in the original barrels has always been touted as putting out 950-1000 in the original barrels

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy Jedman's Avatar
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    I agree with all things Wolfer wrote. If you want to know more what a Ruger in 45 Colt can do look up articles by John Linebaugh.

    Jedman

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    While it is understood as to the why of the min. load-- just a little bit more might be better. Not trying to get you to over pressure a good 6 gun, over the years I have shot several broad side deer and then discovered they only looked that way. They were instead at an angle. This could change the needed power level and it has happened to me a number of times. aim for the best --load for the worst. Just a thought

  16. #16
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    Tripplebeards, 23,000psi is the limit on your new vaquero. That is the same as 45ACP+P which is what that gun is rated for. You can easily get a 255gr to 1200fps and stay under this ceiling. I did it in Schofield brass. Look at the Tier2 loads for 45 Colt.

    The reason I like to load to 1200fps at the muzzle, is because it will hit hide just above the speed of sound. No "buffeting" as the boolit goes subsonic, there is more killing energy than at slower velocities, but one of the main reasons I choose this velocity is that animals react VERY FAST to sight and sound, MUCH faster than humans, so let's say you have a deer standing broadside at 50 yards, perfect shot, she/he does not know you are there. You drop the hammer on a round loaded to 850fps at the muzzle. The muzzle blast and smoke will be visible to the deer immediately, the sound reaches it's ears in slightly less than 1/8 of a second, the boolit strikes the animal some 2 1/2 tenths of a second later. In that time the deer can react and move considerable distance, causing a missed shot or a gutshot deer. I would prefer the boolit hit hide milliseconds before the sound reaches the ears.

    Also if I have to shoot one of North Carolina's thousands of black bears off me, I'd rather depend on the 1200fps load as opposed to the 850fps load all day long.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 01-28-2019 at 06:06 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Tripplebeards, 23,000psi is the limit on your new vaquero. That is the same as 45ACP+P which is what that gun is rated for. You can easily get a 255gr to 1200fps and stay under this ceiling. I did it in Schofield brass. Look at the Tier2 loads for 45 Colt.

    The reason I like to load to 1200fps at the muzzle, is because it will hit hide just above the speed of sound. No "buffeting" as the boolit goes subsonic, there is more killing energy than at slower velocities, but one of the main reasons I choose this velocity is that animals react VERY FAST to sight and sound, MUCH faster than humans, so let's say you have a deer standing broadside at 50 yards, perfect shot, she/he does not know you are there. You drop the hammer on a round loaded to 850fps at the muzzle. The muzzle blast and smoke will be visible to the deer immediately, the sound reaches it's ears in slightly less than 1/8 of a second, the boolit strikes the animal some 2 1/2 tenths of a second later. In that time the deer can react and move considerable distance, causing a missed shot or a gutshot deer. I would prefer the boolit hit hide milliseconds before the sound reaches the ears.

    Also if I have to shoot one of North Carolina's thousands of black bears off me, I'd rather depend on the 1200fps load as opposed to the 850fps load all day long.
    Never thought of the sound factor! I have about a dozen load books and its either 13k loads or stout old vaquero/ black hawk loads. Where do I find tier 2 data?


    I have h110 and lil gun to work with.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Tripplebeards, 23,000psi is the limit on your new vaquero. That is the same as 45ACP+P which is what that gun is rated for. You can easily get a 255gr to 1200fps and stay under this ceiling. I did it in Schofield brass. Look at the Tier2 loads for 45 Colt.

    The reason I like to load to 1200fps at the muzzle, is because it will hit hide just above the speed of sound. No "buffeting" as the boolit goes subsonic, there is more killing energy than at slower velocities, but one of the main reasons I choose this velocity is that animals react VERY FAST to sight and sound, MUCH faster than humans, so let's say you have a deer standing broadside at 50 yards, perfect shot, she/he does not know you are there. You drop the hammer on a round loaded to 850fps at the muzzle. The muzzle blast and smoke will be visible to the deer immediately, the sound reaches it's ears in slightly less than 1/8 of a second, the boolit strikes the animal some 2 1/2 tenths of a second later. In that time the deer can react and move considerable distance, causing a missed shot or a gutshot deer. I would prefer the boolit hit hide milliseconds before the sound reaches the ears.

    Also if I have to shoot one of North Carolina's thousands of black bears off me, I'd rather depend on the 1200fps load as opposed to the 850fps load all day long.
    DougGuy, you are right about so many things, but you are moving into Hollywood land here. I calculated the flight time based on the following formula. (distance to target in feet X 2) / (muzzle velocity + velocity at target. Using the Federal ballistic calculator for 45 colt, I did the following (150 X 2) / (850 + 812) = 0.18 seconds. Doing the same for sound, assuming 1125 FPS, I get 0.13 seconds. The fastest recorded reaction time by a human is 0.101 seconds, and they didn't even start moving until that point. Look at bow hunters. With a measly 250 fps arrow, the best a deer can do is duck a few inches.


    This is nothing against you, just hard facts in a world where we think too much. I am as guilty as anyone.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    DougGuy, you are right about so many things, but you are moving into Hollywood land here. I calculated the flight time based on the following formula. (distance to target in feet X 2) / (muzzle velocity + velocity at target. Using the Federal ballistic calculator for 45 colt, I did the following (150 X 2) / (850 + 812) = 0.18 seconds. Doing the same for sound, assuming 1125 FPS, I get 0.13 seconds. The fastest recorded reaction time by a human is 0.101 seconds, and they didn't even start moving until that point. Look at bow hunters. With a measly 250 fps arrow, the best a deer can do is duck a few inches.


    This is nothing against you, just hard facts in a world where we think too much. I am as guilty as anyone.
    I had a fox outrun a 180gr plain base from a 308 at 400' he was stopped, and at the instant the shot broke, he looked right at me and saw the muzzle flash. At 2400fps, it took the boolit 1/6 of a second to cover 400', the boolit struck the dirt where he was standing, but the fox was long gone. I went and laid my head down where the boolit struck, eyed up where I was sitting with my back against a fence post, and the shot was true. That was one quick fox. Hollywood would have loved to film that one!

    As far as the calculations, thanks for that, I didn't know how to realistically calculate it, I was just outlining out the possibility of the subsonic shot not hitting point of aim in the event the deer would happen to move quickly at the sound of gunfire.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 01-28-2019 at 11:26 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Fox and coyote will run out of the shot on 3650 fps bullet...ask me how I know dozens of times. Have to lead on them a few body lengths or more when they're on the run at a few hundred yards distance away.

    But I'd never take a shot like that on a deer. Just TRYING for vermin elimination. They very first coyote I shot at out west was on the dead run directly away from me at 279 yards. Right up the tail pip free hand...its been all misses on runners ever since. I wait for them to stop before pulling the trigger now.


    But if a deer is in a slow walk or trot at close quarters I'll let one fly.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-29-2019 at 01:59 AM.

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