WidenersTitan ReloadingRotoMetals2Lee Precision
Inline FabricationRepackboxGraf & SonsMidSouth Shooters Supply

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Paper patching just the nose?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,818

    Paper patching just the nose?

    I have never patched a single bullet and never really planned to but:

    I have several boxes of 500 grn .45-70 Govt pattern bullets (grease groove type) with the driving bands at .462. However the nose is only .440 dia and so far these bullets do not shoot very well. I have thought about wrapping the nose up to the groove diameter of my 45-70 bores which would be about .450 to .452.

    My rifles are modern replicas or Ruger single shots. Some have shallow grooves and some are conventional 8 groove barrels.

    Is it possible do this safely without damaging barrel by having a bullet run over or iron the patch paper into the bore? I would like to shoot up these otherwise high quality cast bullets.
    EDG

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    9,620
    The patch will end up a tube around the bullet with no under fold to help anchor it. theoretically the bullet could be pushed thru it ( similar to the old practice of gutting noses .points off of military fmj to make soft points). The bigger concern to me would be if the patch remained in the barrel becoming an obstruction.
    Depending on how many you have a bump die to swell the nose might be a better option. It will be more of a "sure thing" operation.

    With a .440 nose dia 2 wraps of .002 paper (.002X4 layers= .008) this will give you a nose of .447-.448 dia depending on paper stretch. This will be a narrow patch and tricky to handle. With no means of a fold under keeping it wrapped tight is going to be harder. A special template or cutting board will need to be made to cut the patches. Then each bullet wrapped . A simple swage type die in a heavy press and insert bullet raise ram and ker chunk its done.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Old Coot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    307
    I have some questions:
    1. How long is the nose in proportion to the length of the bullet?
    2.What load have you been using with these bullets?
    3. How hard are these bullets, and are they plain base or gas check?
    Before I tried to patch just the nose of these projectiles I would drill a small hole in the nose stand the bullet on end and placing a center punch in the hole give it a whack with a hammer to try to expand them to bore diameter or slightly greater..
    You have got to ask yourself why if these don't shoot you don't just melt them down and cast something that does. Brodie

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master



    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in Sunny, Warm Arequipa till 2020
    Posts
    5,715
    Good afternoon
    "Gutting Noses"... I guess I am a guilty party in such vile practices... Quit true if to much nose is "gut off". Will flat leave a jacket some where down the tube. I could not resist ! I near fell off my chair chuckling as I do the same thing often and then see it later.
    Reads like the slugs are tilting as they begin the journey and pick up a case of the "wobbles" flying along.
    If you have a push through sizer like the Lee type insert the slug with the nose up pushed into the sizer until the base is flush. Place on a flat steel surface. Plunk a steel rod on top of the nose (a little less diameter than the sizer) and give it a good wack.
    I have "bashed up" the diameter of several diameters in this form. No they will not win a match but they will shoot within minute of groundhog or wild dog. Last ones I did were to get a 44 WCF with a fat chamber shooting down here where there are no supplies to be found.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Old Coot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    307
    During the "War of Northern Aggression" (American Civil War) the British supplied the Confederacy with a very capable Sniper rifle; The 1852 Whitworth. The rifle had a hexagonal bore was .451 in diameter and had a twist of about one in twenty. The Brits also supplied paper patched bullets: .451 in diameter, hexagonal in shape, weighing about 600 grs. and they had a funny looking short needle like nose. The set up was incredibly accurate. I asked all those questions in my first post because your accuracy problems may be due to more than just the undersized nose of the bullet.

    In order for a bullet to be accurate it must fit the THROAT of the barrel. Especially a cast bullet. If the bullet does not fit the throat it will most likely enter the barrel crooked or cocked. If this happens there is no way that bullet will be accurate. Get a soft lead fishing sinker larger than the throat of the barrel or any soft lead slug, and drive in into the throat with a metal rod. You should be able to measure just how big the throat is. That is the size your bullets need to be, not the bore size. Don't worry, a cast bullet will easily size down to fit the rifle barrel upon firing. Sixteen to twenty- thousand psi does wonders to make it fit, and at those pressures lead acts like a malleable plastic and won't raise pressures to any significant degree. Brodie

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,818
    The bullet has 4 bands all at .462 diameter.
    The .440 nose is about 1/3 the length of the bullet or about 1 caliber long.

    Throat size of my rifle. Hard to say since there are so many of them. I either shoot them or melt them.
    I can't make them fit a particular rifles throat. That is it is pointless to spend too much effort on these bullets. I am thinking about getting a pad of Post It notes (or blue painters tape) and wrapping each nose just before it is fired.The Post It adhesive may keep the patch in place. Shooting through a single shot would permit me to check the bore after each shot.

    My prior experience with similar Brooks bullet with .462 driving bands and a .450 nose gave excellent accuracy in 3 different rifles.
    The bullets in question are very high quality castings except for the nose being so far under size.
    The exact alloy is unknown but my thumb nail says it is about 20 to 1 alloy. Heavy pressure with my thumb nail with put a groove in the bullet bases.
    EDG

  7. #7
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis MO
    Posts
    2,341
    Some years ago a well know writer of one of the Hunting Magazines used a small wrapping of Teflon tape on the nose of bullets for his 276 Rigby.
    I want to say, one of the gun writers in, Field and Stream. Might give that a try.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy Old Coot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    307
    Try a wrap or, however many it takes to come up to desired diameter, of tape around the nose. It should be alright as long as it stays on the bullet. I personally doubt if your rifling is deep enough to cut all the way through the nose wrap. If all of it stays on there should b e no impediment to accuracy. If only some stays on--- it will probably make the bullets shoot worse. Brodie

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    758
    I would just melt and recast. That way you will have a pretty good idea of the outcome.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check