anyone check out the new 300 win legand round?

[DougGuy]

Wasn't there another thread about a 10mm AR?

I guess to fill a niche in straight walled jurisdictions this 35 caliber would provide WAY more energy than is possible from a pistol caliber handgun, so I can see it working fairly well.

[Jeff Michel]

I thought it might be neat until research uncovered that it's based on a proprietary case (not a .223) and a bullet that is used is not a .358. All the components have to come from the big red W. It smells of the same marketing strategy that brought us the WSM line of calibers.

[GARD72977]

I thought it might be neat until research uncovered that it's based on a proprietary case (not a .223) and a bullet that is used is not a .358. All the components have to come from the big red W. It smells of the same marketing strategy that brought us the WSM line of calibers.

Why do you think it is a proprietary case. It's just a straight wall 223 case.

Not sure how hard it would be to make from 223 but you can buy 223 basic from starline.

It's a 9mm so bullets should not be a problem

[Jeff Michel]

The proprietary case claim came from Winchester. The specific question was asked if the case could be formed from 223/556 and Winchester said "No" it was considered to base it on .223/5.56 during R&D but was discarded due to some feeding issues that came up similar to the 357 AR, hence the 12 degree taper to the case body. The FAQ's are on their web sight and a YouTube video which is pretty informative if a bit lengthy. It's going to pose a bit of a problem if your bullet selection will top out at 147 grain pistol bullet in a 9 mm. In .358, you can 180's with no problem. I don't just shoot targets and as a hunter I do suffer from certain prejudices concerning speed /bullet weight/momentum and a 125 grain bullet they are offering as deer loading wouldn't even make my short list as a 200 yard deer cartridge. I guess I'm looking it as an opportunity for Winchester to knock one out of the park and instead it will probably be a bunt to the first baseman. As I said before, I thought it would of been kinda neat. But if I'm locked in using "their" stuff solely, no thanks. Just my opinion.

[GARD72977]

The case is just a straight wall 223 case. I have handled it and shot it. There is a 265gr bullet I seen last night. I don't see a problem with other manufactures making a .355 bullet.

The feeding issue is because it's double stacked with no bottleneck. All other straight wall cases are single stack.

I really like this as a lead bullet cartridge. I'm planning on buying a bolt gun. Being a target shooter I have different priorities.

[Jeff Michel]

I'm just sharing the facts as Winchester has provided, like them or no. Check out the SAAMI drawings while your at it. It most certainly is not a straight case. I'll try to get the drawings posted for your perusal.

[Jeff Michel]

Attachment 235581

[GARD72977]

It's a straight wall case just like a 450 Bushmaster case. There is less than 2 hundredths difference at the mouth.

[Jeff Michel]

I surrender, your absolutely right.

[Texas by God]

If they had legitimized the .357 AR that Moleman and others are using, I'd be interested even though we have no case restrictions here. But it seems to be proprietary with a 9mm bore( stupid) so with a WSM sized yawn; I'm out.

[cwlongshot]

I thought it might be neat until research uncovered that it's based on a proprietary case (not a .223) and a bullet that is used is not a .358. All the components have to come from the big red W. It smells of the same marketing strategy that brought us the WSM line of calibers.

I couldnt agree more. (TbG !!)

I was really Excited as I am a long time fan if the Maximum. I know exactly what to expect from this offering. For them to choose a differe t cAse and a diameter that has no acceptable rifle bullets is a shun to reloaders.
Thats a mistake as they have a protion of the market they CHOSE TO abandon.

I have like s the idea since speaking of the 357AR mack in early 2016. If I do somethi g it will be with this cartritage. Not the 350.

But I like the idea of a 10mm AR as well but it suffers from the same problem using a .355 bullet... Nothing avalible to operate at the faster velocities of a rifle cartritage.

CW

[fixit]

In studying the saami specifications for the 350 Winchester, I suspect that they began their concept from a 9 mm Luger cartridge stretched to the length that they wanted. They had to use a rebated rim to bring it down to 5.56 size, but the base of the cartridge is pretty near the same diameter of the base of a 9 mm luger. How annoying!

[P Flados]

I have done some homework. Converting 223 is iffy due to many ending up with a length that is just less than desired for a round that headspaces on the case mouth.

Using 223 Basic from Starline will work. Depending on bullet, cases and chamber you may need neck turning / reaming.

For my 357AR (Rimless Max), all of my brass is converted 223.

[john.k]

According to the publicity drawing case/chamber dimension is .391" at base ,015" larger than a 223,at least ,and more with an undersized 223 base ,which they all are.........so you are looking at at a considerable bulge with 223 cases ,maybe enough for head separation........Winchester have designed another round which can rather conveniently be dumped when the first run of drawing dies wear out.

[clodhopper]

Plenty of reloaders will over come the dimensional differences to make 350 brass from the prolific scrap found on ranges every where.

The diameter is small? ram a punch in to stretch the case, resize, and load. The head will expand on firing.

Too short to head space on mouth? seat your bullets slightly long.

The length will increase with use.

Some of them have short life? Pick up some more material at the range.

[P Flados]

As a guy that likes "smart choices" the 350 Legend chamber length spec bugs me.

If your chamber length is close to the max allowed by the spec, a very low percentage of "normal process" converted case will be long enough for first fire.

If your chamber length is close to min, more than half "normal process" converted cases should work on first fire.

If your get a chamber cut 0.010" under spec minimum, almost all would be ok.

And then on first firing the case length drops due to the diameter increase. With the larger taper this will be more than the 357AR. I would expect 0.025" - 0.030" or so.

If after the first fire you use a pistol sizing die, you can recover most all of the length, but you are working the brass a bunch in the mid section. Do this more than a few times and mid section case splits are likely to be more frequent than desired. Now the typical case split will not hurt the gun or prevent the ammo from shooting ok, but it does end the life of the brass.

If after the first fire, you use a tapered die (the right choice IMO) you only recover 0.015" or so in length.

If you are a little short after using a tapered die, a partial length size with a pistol die can "fix" the length.

So, I am pretty sure that many will find that converted 223 cases can be made to work.

However the effort required to use a high fraction will probably be a pain, you will loose a lot and you end up working the brass a whole lot in the mid section of the round. The longer the chamber within the spec tolerance, the worse it will be.

If the spec had been just 0.015" shorter, it would have been near perfect.

Now, I know of methods that would "stretch" cases the needed amount during conversion. Probably more involved than most will want.

[dragon813gt]

Winchester doesn’t care about case conversions. They want to sell you loaded ammo and possibly cartridge cases. The specs prove this to be the case, no pun intended.

[rking22]

The Winchester release says .357 dia. For what it’s worth. After reading their add release I can’t say I am much interested. But then I don’t live in a straight wall state either.
As to headspace, it is designed to headspace on the case mouth, just like a 30 carbine, all grown up

[Tripplebeards]

I’ll pass, might have interested me if I didn’t own a 450 bushmaster already for straight wall deer hunting in IA. My Ruger American may have more recoil but will have more energy,shoot faster,and flatter with custom loads. I’m sure Winchester saw a nitch with states going to a straight wall deer cartridge instead of a slug gun. I can already see the caliber being fazed out in a few years.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think Winchester is a bit sneeky with this one. they claim it cant be made from a 556 case so they can sell you ammo and brass. They also knew the majority of buyers were probably going to be handloaders and realize that there claim it cant be done is a lie. It sells ammo and takes away any liability if some old military brass a guy picked up on the range blows apart a gun. Cant be done? Hardly. A guy can make 22-250 brass out of 35 Whelan brass if he has the time and patients and enough dies.