AR question - Calibers?

[5 RING]

If AR magazines were longer I'd see about a 7mm TCU AR, but I'd definitely have to seat the bullets rather deeply for those to work in an AR!

if your looking to run a 7mm in the AR try the 7mm Valkyre https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/about.html

[am44mag]

Hey all.

Considering getting one+ AR's (again) - Last one I had was just 5.56; If you were going to get say 2-4 different lowers, in what calibers would you get uppers for them?

Probably mostly will try varminting with these as that's sorta my thing, at various ranges. Pretty long ranges would be nice.

I've considered of course 5.56, maybe 300 BO for closer in varmints using CBs; for varminting what else would you think would be good?

Current plans are not to move to an area where there are wild hogs, so I don't know if I need a large caliber or not... Probably Montana if all goes well.

Most other niches are covered, just scratching my head and thinking on what I need / want & thought you folks might have ideas.

I'll probably plink etc. somewhat too, of course

Thanks!

I've thought about the 300 BLK a lot, but the fact that it can and will chamber in a 5.56 AR concerns me. I don't think it would be an issue if you just pay attention, but it's one less thing to worry about or that could go wrong. The new 350 Winchester is super appealing to me though, and should be an excellent cast round. 458 SOCOM or 450 Bushmaster would also be great if you want a thumper. 6.5 Grendel would be good for long range shooting.

[DCM]

6.5 Grendel would be an accurate Verminator, although I am far from pleased with it on medium game.
I would also look at the 22 Nosler for vermin.

[Lloyd Smale]

they sell a kind of a rubber band with caliber markings for the 300bo that is suppose to go on magazines so you don't grab the wrong one. I put them on all the mags that are loade with 300 bo and I also have one around the handguard so I instantly know its my bo I grabbed. You could do the same thing with a bit of bright colored paint. I have many rifles that will chamber other rounds and possibly even shoot them. I hope God gave me enough common sense to not do something that dumb.

I've thought about the 300 BLK a lot, but the fact that it can and will chamber in a 5.56 AR concerns me. I don't think it would be an issue if you just pay attention, but it's one less thing to worry about or that could go wrong. The new 350 Winchester is super appealing to me though, and should be an excellent cast round. 458 SOCOM or 450 Bushmaster would also be great if you want a thumper. 6.5 Grendel would be good for long range shooting.

[KMac]

6.5 Grendel would be an accurate Verminator, although I am far from pleased with it on medium game.

Would you please let us know why you say you are not pleased with the 6.5 Grendel on medium sized game?
Just built one and was planning to use it for hogs, deer and and medium range target shooting.
From everything I have read it is the close to the performance of the 6.8 spc within 300 yards on medium sized game and way better outside of it.

[dragon813gt]

they sell a kind of a rubber band with caliber markings for the 300bo......

Magpul also makes dedicated 300BLK mags. They have visual as well as textural identification. They feel different then the 5.56 mags. Bonus is they have some slight modifications for better feeding of 300BLK. Just wish they made them in ten rounders. Don’t have a 300BLK upper. But I’d like ones marked this way for use w/ a 357AR upper.

[jmort]

I have the Magpul 300 BO mags. I like them
Also, Lancer makes different colors and I like them as well. Probably my favorite.
They play well with the 300 BO and 458 SOCOM. They work real good and are a rainbow. I use as follows:
Black for BO
Purple for 5.56
Red for 458 SOCOM

[DCM]

Would you please let us know why you say you are not pleased with the 6.5 Grendel on medium sized game?
Just built one and was planning to use it for hogs, deer and and medium range target shooting.
From everything I have read it is the close to the performance of the 6.8 spc within 300 yards on medium sized game and way better outside of it.

I shot a very nice deer at roughly 50 yards with it last season, the father in law and I followed the blood trail a Long Long ways and we never recovered the deer.

[jmort]

Is it even remotely possible that the shot placement was suboptimal???

[KMac]

I shot a very nice deer at roughly 50 yards with it last season, the father in law and I followed the blood trail a Long Long ways and we never recovered the deer.

What ammunition did you shoot it with, if you don't mind me asking? The Hornady 123 gr SST is supposed to be very good from what I hear and I was planning on using that and will be reloading with some Nosler 129 gr ABLR. I have seen some complaints about the 123 gr ELD-M Black but it is match ammunition, not hunting ammunition. Although a lot of people have had good luck with it on deer and hogs.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup id have to either guess shot placement wasn't where you thought it was or you used to heavy or light of a bullet. Ive killed MANY deer. Ive had some run but very few hit in the boileroom with any centerfire round go farther then a 100 yards. I had problems one year with barnes x bullets in 24 and 25 calibers opening up and just punching through. Lost two deer that year and would have certainly blamed it on shot placemen (and it isn't totally ruled out) if I hadn't recovered so many with a small hole in and a small hole out. Most of them even pilled up in less then a 100 yards though. Anymore I just wont use x bullets in calibers smaller then 7mm or in standard (non magnum) calibers of any size. Might make an exception for something like the blackout where barnes designed a bullet specifically for the velocity it produces but its pretty seldom that a bullet that is designed to take the velocitys of a 6.5 nosler still perform well in something like the Grendel. I am curious as to what bullet you did use. Even then I hate to pass judgement on a bullet with only one kill to go one. First deer I shot with my 300 wby 700 rem was with a 180 partition. I tracked it probably a half a mile and if there was no snow I probably wouldn't have found it. I hit it just a few inches two high for the vitals and two low for the spine. Now with that knowledge I wouldn't come here and say a 300 wby with 180 partitions isn't good enough for deer. Maybe if I shot a dozen and had fairly long tracking jobs on 10 of them id say something. Like I have for x bullets in 24 and 25 cal guns. My partner and I shot 34 deer that year (slow year) with 24 and 25 cal barnes bullets (yes the tipped ones) in 2506s 257wbys and my 240 wby and exactly two were dumped in there tracks and 10 others died before they got out of the field. Normal year we shoot probably twice that many deer and have maybe 10 of them that get out of the field. We lost 5 deer that year that we KNEW were hit and two others that were probably hit. In the 14 years we been doing it and no doubt 500 deer or more weve killed we lost only 6 more other then those 5. Yes I keep records on our kills just like I keep loading records. I can give you a report card on MANY different calibers and bullets. Hands down the best bullets for knocking down deer are nos bts, sierra prohunters and speer hot cores in that order. Id bet my home that if you would have put a 120 bt into the vitals of that deer you would have ate backstraps.

Is it even remotely possible that the shot placement was suboptimal???

[DCM]

Yes shot placement is a Possible factor, I Think that I placed it well but... I will never really know the answer until maybe after I pass.
I was using a 135 Berger classic hunter that shot tiny groups and Looked promising when I tested it in the Permagel.

I have gone through all of the discussion above many times since. I have come to the conclusion that I will use different style bullets than these in all of my deer hunting ammo, and that I will Not use the 18" barreled upper for deer again as I really have better options.
We do have a bolt action with a longer barrel that can produce better velocities and use a wider range of bullets, the hunting loads for that will get updated in case a recoil sensitive shooter decides to join us, but they will have someone backing them up with something bigger.

I really wish we would have recovered this deer for multiple reasons, some answers on placement and projectile performance could have been made, I Really hate wasting game and it was a very nice deer.

As much as I hate to rethink this I do appreciate the input as I really do not want this to happen again.

[Texas by God]

The NBT is popular here for the very reason Lloyd stated. It's my go to bullet in .243 and 25-06 for deer. In a Grendel I would use the 100gr NBT. Some would consider it a varmint bullet but deer are just big edible varmints.

[KMac]

DCM,
not really trying to open the discussion up again since it has been covered in another thread and I have not gone and read it.
But that is an awful bullet choice. Johnny's reloading bench covered that exact bullet in 200 yard expansion tests in the Grendel and the Creedmoor and it failed miserably.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUM8lDo430
Like Texas By God said the 100 Gr NBT would have been a better choice.
I have already loaded some of those but haven't had time to test them yet. The Nosler 129 gr ABLR opens up all way way down to 1300 fps and holds together even at close range Creedmoor velocities.

[DCM]

I have no opposition to re-opening the discussion. I would rather continue the discussion in hopes that others do not make the same mistake.
In the process I hope to make better choices for the bolt action long barreled rifle we have as I intend to keep it for future endeavors.
All Constructive comments are welcome!



As I said above I have not ruled out buck fever, I am human and willing to admit it.

[Lloyd Smale]

big of you to own up to that. Most wont. I don't think though it was an 18 inch barrel problem either. the Grendel is a realitively small case and you aren't going to gain a lot from a longer barrel. Especially with your 50 yard shot. Maybe if you shot a deer out at 300 yards the 50-100 fps you gain might make the difference in whether a bullet expands or not but at 50 yards you have plenty of velocity to open up about any lead core bullet.

I have no opposition to re-opening the discussion. I would rather continue the discussion in hopes that others do not make the same mistake.
In the process I hope to make better choices for the bolt action long barreled rifle we have as I intend to keep it for future endeavors.
All Constructive comments are welcome!



As I said above I have not ruled out buck fever, I am human and willing to admit it.

[DCM]

When I shot the Permagel I had placed it at 50 yards as I hunt the same stand year after year and the deer usually come through at that distance or close too it. Expansion was great. I am fearful that penetration was more of an issue, especially if I hit a bone.
Definitely changing bullet type based on that.

A couple of years back my father in law shot a nice buck that we figure turned at the wrong moment. The shot entered at a nice location in the chest but ended up deep in the neck. While it did hit lots of stuff on the way there it didn't look like it hit anything to make the deer drop right there like it did. We think the spinal shock is what caused it to do that as it followed the spine but did not break it. This bullet penetrated about 24+". Had it not penetrated so deeply it would not have gotten near the spine.

[Walkingwolf]

I just got the bug, and bought my first AR pistol in 300 BO. Bought mostly as a camping gun for my motorcycle. IMO 5.56 was too small for camping so I went with the 300, but I wish they had developed a 356 AR magnum utilizing almost all of the 5.56 case and a pistol bullet, not sure why nobody has thought of this, in the really short barrels, and short range distance it would be a no brainer.

[lefty o]

I just got the bug, and bought my first AR pistol in 300 BO. Bought mostly as a camping gun for my motorcycle. IMO 5.56 was too small for camping so I went with the 300, but I wish they had developed a 356 AR magnum utilizing almost all of the 5.56 case and a pistol bullet, not sure why nobody has thought of this, in the really short barrels, and short range distance it would be a no brainer.

there is the 357AR, and the new 350 legend from winchester. either of them would probably fill your requirements.

[Walkingwolf]

there is the 357AR, and the new 350 legend from winchester. either of them would probably fill your requirements.

I wasn't aware, will either of them work in the AR platform with 5.56 mags, and BCG? I see they just introduced at the shot show AR upper in 350 legend, I will wait for the price to come down, right now they are talking a grand starting point. I built my 300 BO for around $400, and it will work, just ballistics with heavy bullets are not much better than 357 mag at short ranges out of a short barrel at closer ranges. Of course though I pickup more capacity, and probably better aiming platform compared to a revolver.