New 35 caliber

[indian joe]

As far as selling for deer in straight wall states it will have to bail at least a 150gr bullet at 23-2400 Fps to get much attention. White tail deer aren't hard to kill but what most serious guys are after is a cartridge that shoots
flatter than what's already on the market. With 38/357 minimum for caliber and the design bullets in this range it's going to be hard to come up with anything that will be a improvement on performance of what we already have. This might sell to hunters buying their first rifle but I'm not excited by it. I thought when I first herd about it that is was going to be a 35cal version of 375w which may have had some advantage in velocity.

When It gets right down to it it's going to be hard to get 30/30 ballistics out of a straight case.

I'm just a curious aussie but isnt that the whole point of the straight case rules ? (misguided tho they might be) to limit carryover trajectory - so when you miss bambi at 287 yards you dont ping some kid on a bike a couple of farms away??

[dverna]

Okay, in a levergun what is the advantage to this over say the .35 Rem. or the .356 Win? I know there will be those special ops Green Berets here that need it in an AR chambered for it.

I believe it is targeted at those who need a straight wall cases due to local state regulations.

There is a market for AR owners as well.

It cannot match the ballistics of the .35 Rem or .356...but those are not legal in some areas and neither can run in an AR15.

[dverna]

I’m sure most of us have guns in the safes that take ammo that was factory supported at one time. W/ any new cartridge you should plan in case it goes away like the majority of them do. I converted a 336 to 356 Winchester well after the cartridge was dead. So factory support means little to me.

What’s confusing to me is the fact that the 357 AR has been around for many years yet people are acting like the 350 Legend is brand new and nothing is like it. I realize they are two different cartridges w/ different dimensions. But the similarities are very close and many people have been using the 357 AR w/ great success for years. Can’t wait for one of the big manufacturers to come out w/ their version of the 358 Yeti and claim it as their own



Agree on case length but the reports I’ve read have said .355 diameter bullets. Components will happen over time and w/ popularity. You can make the case from 223 brass so that’s not an issue. And chamber reamers are already listed by one company. Dies will happen over time as well. Give it time and everything will be available.

I had dozens of rifles at one time and the only one that was hard to find ammunition for was a .38/55. But even it could be fed factory if I ordered the stuff. I shoot very little factory ammunition except for .22’s and 12 ga., so reloading is normal for me. But, if selling a gun, there is a larger market if the rifle has factory ammunition available. Case in point....the .35AR will be a lame duck now that the .350 has been introduced. Why would anyone invest in one?

[P Flados]

The lever gun is easier now. Get a Henry in 223 and have a 35 Cal barrel fitted and you are there. If Henry will offer the 350, they will sell them plenty in the straight wall pistol round states.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Too bad the 351 Winchester is not more available. We have a .401 Model 1910 Winchester and it has all the thwap of the 414 Supermag ina 336 Marlin But in a semi auto. If ILLinois would just wake up !!!
Mike in Peru

[P Flados]

The 350 legend is a plus in a number of ways.

• For hunters in the straight wall states that want a bolt gun, they will now have a capable deer gun with factory ammo.
• For hunters in the straight wall states that want an AR platform gun, they will now be able to choose from 45 cal or 35 cal with factory ammo.
• For hunters in the straight wall states that want a lever gun, they can hope Henry will jump on board.
• For all reloaders going with the 350 Legend, loss of factory ammo will be "no big deal". There is the Starline 223 basic and there is the ability to neck up 223s (I have already confirmed this works). For dies, the 38/357 dies that many already have will do the job ok.
• For 35 cal lovers everywhere, the gun will be a good capable 150 yard deer gun as is. Optimum bullets could extend effective range out probably another 100 yards provided the gun accurate and the shooter can deal with a trajectory and wind drift.
• For all reloaders with 35 cal rifles, bullet selection should improve.

The gun will have a small performance edge over the 357 maximum single shot rifles. The hunters with 357 maximum rifles tend to be very happy with their guns. They have proven that the round is good, but they tend to complain more about the lack of choices for good hunting bullets more than anything else.

FYI, factory loads currently show a 150 plastic tip at 2325 fps and a 180 soft point at 2100 fps.

[500Linebaughbuck]

357 herrett or a 358 idc is there also.

[Texas by God]

If the.351 WSL had used .358" bullets it would probably still be with us.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[northmn]

Too bad the 30 Remington is not still popular, then the AR people could have a 375AR. It was a rimless 30-30.

Flados points are good ones. Personally I could care less about AR offerings but think the cartridge has potential in its place. We have both rifle zones and shotgun zones in MN but I think the shotgun zones are still shotgun. Still if MN follows the other states lead they might permit straight cased rifle cartridges. Looking at the advances of saboted shotguns and rifled shotguns they might as well.


DEP

[dverna]

The 350 legend is a plus in a number of ways.

• For hunters in the straight wall states that want a bolt gun, they will now have a capable deer gun with factory ammo.
• For hunters in the straight wall states that want an AR platform gun, they will now be able to choose from 45 cal or 35 cal with factory ammo.
• For hunters in the straight wall states that want a lever gun, they can hope Henry will jump on board.
• For all reloaders going with the 350 Legend, loss of factory ammo will be "no big deal". There is the Starline 223 basic and there is the ability to neck up 223s (I have already confirmed this works). For dies, the 38/357 dies that many already have will do the job ok.
• For 35 cal lovers everywhere, the gun will be a good capable 150 yard deer gun as is. Optimum bullets could extend effective range out probably another 100 yards provided the gun accurate and the shooter can deal with a trajectory and wind drift.
• For all reloaders with 35 cal rifles, bullet selection should improve.

The gun will have a small performance edge over the 357 maximum single shot rifles. The hunters with 357 maximum rifles tend to be very happy with their guns. They have proven that the round is good, but they tend to complain more about the lack of choices for good hunting bullets more than anything else.

FYI, factory loads currently show a 150 plastic tip at 2325 fps and a 180 soft point at 2100 fps.

Yes, that sums it up very well.

The only other thing I might add is the advantage it holds as a cheap plinking round for reloaders and casters. I currently use .38/.357 lever actions for that role. This round will need a bit more powder buy not much more to get say 1000-1200 fps with a 125-158gr bullet. And being able to load it with carbide dies, using cheap cases, will be a real plus over a bottleneck rifle cartridge. With the challenges of getting accurate .223 cast loads, this platform should be a lot easier if someone wants inexpensive blasting ammunition. Of course those mouse loads will not operate in an AR but this will be a significant improvement over say a Ruger 77 in .357 Mag. as it can operate over a wider range of velocities.

It eclipses the range of a .357 Mag. for deer hunting. It carries 900 ft-lbs to 200 yards.

Frankly, I do not see any negatives in this offering by Winchester. The XPR is not an elegant rifle but an accurate one. It would be sweet in a Howa mini-Mauser.

[Drm50]

I'm just a curious aussie but isnt that the whole point of the straight case rules ? (misguided tho they might be) to limit carryover trajectory - so when you miss bambi at 287 yards you dont ping some kid on a bike a couple of farms away??

That is the misguided reason for straight case limits. I irks hunters in my area for two reasons. 1st they allow
modern Muzzel loaders that use smokeless powder that exceed a 3030 class rifle in velocity- hence carry distance. Second they have 38 cal minimum which forces us to carry buffalo guns to shoot deer and there are
a few legal calibres that get into this range, like 405 Win. Lastly about 4/5ths of Ohio is fairly flat where wild shots could occur. The population even in flat portions is thin, major populations around the metro areas. I live
in Appalacian area. Very steep and rugged country where you could use anything safely. WVa is right across the
River. So if there is a 35 cal that will shot in realm of 30/30 it would be popular and legal- don't make sense do it?

[curioushooter]

The home for this cartridge will be the CZ527. I hope Winny won't make it proprietary and starline will pick it up and the Czechs have the good sense to make it in their outstanding platform.

The cartridge may find success in the AR...but that market is terribly flooded.

May also be good in the Win92/Mar94 sized leverguns, but they've never made one in max.

One thing I don't like about that cartridge is it headspaces on the mouth, and most jacketed .357 are meant for revolver duty and most .358 are meant for lever gun duty...both with roll crimps. Methinks that they better sort out getting a good taper crimp on these or a crimp on the case body.

[Moleman-]

Since we're in the levergun section and talking about a straight walled case for special DNR zones that prohibit bottlenecks or cases that are too long. The easy way to go would be to get a marlin 336. Get a 1894 Marlin 357barrel and ream it to 357Max. Shorten the ring on the front of the 336 bolt about .005"-.010" so you can actually headspace it and not have a false headspace reading caused by no gap between the bolt and barrel. Deepen the extractor and ejector cuts for the smaller rim. Put the 1894 barrel (or make your own) on the 336 and modify the carrier to work with the shorter and narrower 357Max cartridge. Do it right and it will feed 38, 357mag and max. Why Marlin doesn't do it is a very good question. The 336 action is already used for the 308 Marlin which runs around 47Kpsi. So from a gas handling angle we know Marlin feels safe with it at 47Kpsi and if you limit a 357 Maximum load to 47Kpsi you will match what the 350 Legend velocity runs according to the Winchester site. Using a 20" barrel (same as what they rate the legend with) a 180gr HCFN speer, 22.4gr W296, 2.145" COL, 2111 fps (Quickload guess which for 357max/357AR I've found to be usually just below the chrony average). Sure looks like it's the same performance. Need to cut the front sight, mag tube and forearm hanger dovetails on mine with an octagon barrel but it will feed fire and extract these 38/357mag/357Max cartridges with the mag tube held on with some "gunsmithing duct tape".

[bruce drake]

Too bad the 30 Remington is not still popular, then the AR people could have a 375AR. It was a rimless 30-30.

Flados points are good ones. Personally I could care less about AR offerings but think the cartridge has potential in its place. We have both rifle zones and shotgun zones in MN but I think the shotgun zones are still shotgun. Still if MN follows the other states lead they might permit straight cased rifle cartridges. Looking at the advances of saboted shotguns and rifled shotguns they might as well.


DEP

I built a Ar15 carbine upper in .30 Herrett Rimless last fall. It is made from a trimmed and formed 6.8SPC cartridge case. The 6.8 SPC is a direct descendant of the 30 Remington case. Its just shorter and necked up to 30 caliber. Its formed with a 30 Herrett sizing die and and 6.8 SPC shellholder. With the right powder and bullet, its equal to a 30-30 Win.

With that thought, I'd jump at a 35-30 Winchester 94 or a 35 remington bolt or lever-action rifle also.

[cwlongshot]

More info

SAMMI has approved the cartridge!

https://thereloadersnetwork.com/2019...ing-shot-show/

CW

[dragon813gt]

More info

SAMMI has approved the cartridge!

That’s been known since the announcement. Problem is SAAMI’s site. It’s not listed under new cartridges. And you can’t view any of the old chamber drawings right now. I really want to see the dimensions.

[cwlongshot]

More info

SAMMI has approved the cartridge!

https://thereloadersnetwork.com/2019...ing-shot-show/

CW

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/30-ca...gend&results=1



https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/...pid=1307190825



CW

[dragon813gt]

Check the date on the reamer print. That might not be the final version.

[curioushooter]

There's an easier way to make a lever gun legal for Indiana (which allows bottle necks but limits to 1.8" long) public lands...357 Herrett. Will work with Win 94/Mar336/Mossy464 etc. Just a straight forward rebarrel. No messing with the bolt. No messing with the extractor. The 200 grain FTX boolit is the obvious jacketed choice here. And many gas check cast boolits work as well.

For Ohio you just get something in 375 Winchester. Starline is making the brass now.

What's cool about the Legend is that it should work in the .223 envelope. Not that I am interested in AR15s in this cartridge. But I think the small frame bolt actions would be a great home for this cartridge.

I was all hot to get a ruger no1 or no3 coverted to max. Now I think I will wait and see what comes out in Legend. Wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruger no1 in it or a CZ527. Both of those I'd snap up, especially iff the CZ was offered in Left hand.

[bikerbeans]

How can it be a blow out 223 rem when the casehead on that print is 0.015" larger than a 223 casehead?

BB