22 Hornet headspace

[crankycalico]

IS it true that each company making rifles in 22 hornet use their own standards for head space? Making some rifles kill a case on the first shot due to excessive stretching and others on the 2nd or 3rd shot.

I believe I read it on Saubier forums, but couldn't get the poster to expand on the idea.

[EDG]

Firearms sold in the US are supposed to comply with the SAAMI standards.
Hornet brass is not very strong and for some weird reason a lot of people that load it think they should get over 3000 fps.

Stretching brass can be a function of poor die setup and overloading.
Your comment is the first time I have heard such in 50 years of reloading.
I get decent case life with my rifle but I don't load it very hot.
Most shooters blame the long sloping shoulder for a lot of case troubles. I have read that the sharp shouldered K-Hornet gives much better case life because the case position can be controlled with the shoulder.

[farmerjim]

you can get 3378 fps with the 30 grain barnes varmint grenade and 14.4 grains of Lil'Gun.

I crushed the case on the first Hornet I loaded, but I am much more careful now. I would re-chamber to K-hornet if someone near me had the reamer.

[Iron Whittler]

The 22 hornet is a rimmed case. In theory it headspaces on the rim. Yes and no. Weapons chambered for hornet should head space between the case head face and shoulder. On the hornet with it's fragile case, size die adj. is very important. Do not move the shoulder back. This will match your case to your chamber. If you have more than 1 hornet, segregate your brass and only use them in that weapon. No matter the gunsmith or manufacture, it is almost impossible to make the chamber exactly alike. This will enhance case life. Next the hornet is a hoot to shoot, with proper loading it's very accurate. Use jacked bullets in the 30, 35, 40 grain range at moderate speeds as to not overstress the case. Do not try to make the Hornet into a 222 or 223 velocity range. It won't make it. The only thing accomplished is short case life and usually poor accuracy. Neck size your cases when possible, batch your cases to the weapon fired in. Next thing is case neck annealing. this keeps neck tension consistent and reduces neck splitting. The cases of the hornet are thin and fragile. Be gentle when loading. Keep your bullets as straight as possible when seating. Many a case have been crushed when seating. Do your self a favor and get a lee factory crimp die. Trying to put a crimp with you seating die is risky business. It is very easy to crush your case. Choose the powder it likes, the right bullet, go have a blast.

[cwlongshot]

EDJ nailed it.

Its pretty much OP error... Its a old cartridge, Old design. HS is via its rim, so no, its chambered and shot, pretty straight forward. But its case design is such that its not friendly to "pushing things" possibly not as friendly to hotter modern powders either, something way to common these days unfortunately.

I took a good shooting H&R Hornet and re chambered it to K. its a completely different cartridge now. I LIKE IT!













CW

[earlmck]

My regular hornet is my favorite cast boolit shooter. My k-hornet shoots jacketed great, cast not so much --dinky little short neck.

I've never lost a case from either rifle to anything but neck splits and that is after many many shots. I use a 218 Bee die as a neck sizer and the full-length sizers seldom get used. But I'd make sure they didn't set the shoulder back when I used 'em.

[Herb in Pa]

you can get 3378 fps with the 30 grain barnes varmint grenade and 14.4 grains of Lil'Gun.

I crushed the case on the first Hornet I loaded, but I am much more careful now. I would re-chamber to K-hornet if someone near me had the reamer.

I use 13.5 grains of Lil Gun with a 30 Barnes and run at 3188FPS currently on my 12th loading on the brass. I also believe that case life is also a function of the action design, some Hornets use a rimfire action with only the bolt stem acting as the locking lug. I'm shooting an Annie with dual rear locking lugs...……..

[ulav8r]

Have some Hornet ammo, but only a barrel blank to be made into one. I will probably make it a K. Hornet rifles have been made by many different manufacturers and gunsmiths over the years, so there is lots of variation possible. There are also variations in K-Hornet chambers, with some offerings varying from the original K specifications but calling them K Hornets. Maybe it was Kimber or Cooper, don't remember who for sure, that sold a K that had a different shoulder angle and some die manufacturers sell that version as a K without mentioning that it is not the original K.

[Greg S]

I have an Anschutz 1700 series in a hornet. The rim recess is deep. In comparison, some european brass has a thicker rim than us brass, hence; i set my sizer to headspace off the shoulder to prolong case life. I would not hesitate to set it back a thread and ream it for the K.

[Jeff Michel]

If you don't try to make it into a .218 Bee, the brass will last quite a while.

[cwlongshot]

GREAT caliber in its own right... but for the brass costs. Hornet is $$ enough price Bee brass!!

CW

[crankycalico]

Its why I was asking. They made it out that each company is using slightly different measurements so that some are sloppier then others, and I cant figure out what ones were called "gooder then the others".

Im thinking it would be a good idea to get a Hornet, cast bullet fun for small animals. and keep my bigger guns for reasonable use with small bullets for small game and lots of long range shooting.

[richhodg66]

If you don't try to make it into a .218 Bee, the brass will last quite a while.

Or a .222 or even .223. I'm on a facebook page devoted to the Hornet and it is almost scary how many guys out there are trying to. If you want that, buy a .223 and be done with it, where the Hornet really shines is as a mild cartridge.

I only shoot cast in my Hornets. Furthermore, I only shoot light cast in my Hornets, I got into it to replace rimfires and it works very well for that. I started with, and still use a set of the Lee collet neck sizer dies and have never had a problem with them in my Savage 219. I bought enough brass that I have not loaded any single one very many times, But I suspect brass will last a while.

It's a great little cartridge if you don't expect it to be something it's not. I have not found it to be difficult to load for like so many people say.

[richhodg66]

I have a .218 Bee now as well, fortunately have enough brass to last a while. When I shoot it with jacketed for a while, it will become a cast bullet squirrel sniper like my Savage 219, in fact, it may take it's place as my favorite poking around in the woods gun. Always wondered why the Bee never caught on, seems to be an inherently better cartridge than the Hornet, but oh well.

[country gent]

I just touch the shoulder on hornet cases. The body taper and long shoulder can have problems if using rim to headspace. I use the shoulder to headspace. It does improve case life and also accuracy. It is like the belted mags that headspace on the belt it works but things are better if you use the shoulder to headspace to your rifle.

The hornet was meant as a light small game varmint round years before a lot of the others were available. It is a mild light recoiling reloadable round. Hot rodding it isn't needed it is fine as is. In fact in some instances when using bullets designed for the hornet the extra velocity may hurt costing penetration and accuracy. Most of the bullets for the hornet have poor bcs and sd so its never going to be a flat shooting round compared to the vlds and high bc bullets in faster cartridges.

I have several 22 cal centerfires ( 22 hornet 218 bee 223 22-250 220 swift) and all have their place and use trying to make one do what the others will is just putting more wear on the rifle. Load the hornet as a hornet and enjoy some really fun shooting

[Texas by God]

IMHO the .218 Bee is a much better cartridge than the Hornet, and not just ballistically.
I base this on the 4 .22 Hornets and 2 .218 Bees I have worked with. I prefer the Bee.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[cwlongshot]

IMHO the .218 Bee is a much better cartridge than the Hornet, and not just ballistically.
I base this on the 4 .22 Hornets and 2 .218 Bees I have worked with. I prefer the Bee.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I agree and also have a couple of each.

For me its nostalgic as it was the first caliber I reloaded ever and did so with my Grandfather. On a Lyman JR press! Very fold memories...

CW

[Larry Gibson]

Having 222s, 223s and 22-250s the standard Hornet was all it needed to be, for me anyway. Yes I did try the K-Hornet but found no real increase in either accuracy or effective range over the standard Hornet with the loads I use. I found long ago that NSing ( I originally used a 310 die but then got a Redding bushing die) just to the base of the seated bullet greatly extended case life and greatly improved accuracy. I also found using and M-die (I use the 310 expander die) sure made seating the small 22 cal bullets easier in the thin cases, haven't scrunched a case since.

I use a classic 4227 load under 40 gr Hornet bullets in the older Savage rifles for 2650 fps and excellent accuracy. In my Ruger #3 I burned up a lot of H110 under the same 40 and 45 gr pushing them at 2850 fps. In the Savage M40 with a 14" twist the 45 Hornady Hornet SP has become my bullet of choice. I load it over 12.5 gr Lil'gun for 2950 fps and, again, excellent accuracy.

Case life using NSing has been excellent, so excellent I gave up tracking times fired.

[MT Chambers]

I would "K" any hornet I had just as I would "Mashburn" any .218 Bee, in fact I have a CPA in .218 Mashburn Bee and it is the most accurate varmint cartridge I've ever had.

[EDG]

What makes you think only the rifles vary?
Rims vary from one to another and case brands vary from one to another.
The tolerances stack up. Both rim recesses in the rifle and rim thickness in the brass add together for even more slop.
In addition the case walls vary in thickness from brand to brand. A very thin case is easier to damage.
Cases vary in hardness and the case heads may vary in diameter.

A soft case might stretch more. A hard case might crack easier.
A small case head is stretched at the pressure ring more than a larger case head.
All these case variables happen in different combinations with different brands of brass.

How you size your cases and how much pressure your loads develop also affects case life.
It is not JUST a matter of rifle chamber head space.

Its why I was asking. They made it out that each company is using slightly different measurements so that some are sloppier then others, and I cant figure out what ones were called "gooder then the others".

Im thinking it would be a good idea to get a Hornet, cast bullet fun for small animals. and keep my bigger guns for reasonable use with small bullets for small game and lots of long range shooting.