Wheelweight metal puzzles me

[earlmck]

A friend acquired a couple buckets of wheelweights (about 250# worth) and I said "Great!..let's make 'em into ingots".

Now the last time this kid melted down wheelweights into ingots was waaay back in the pre-zinc era. But I have heard about zinc and so we got our big cutters out and tested everything that went into the melt. Man does this slow progress! Big appreciation for you fellows who do this and sell those wonderful clean ingots for about $1/lb.

We got about a third of our way through the buckets before we pooped out -- about 60# of ingots with a lot of zinc ones back in the bucket to be used for actual wheel balancing. Yesterday I thought I'd turn some of them into boolits for our 44/40s which we go through a lot of. My new wheelweight material makes a nice looking boolit and was easy to cast with as far as I am concerned -- I have made decent boolits from straight wheelweight metal for nearly 50 years and am fairly easy to please. But the new ww metal makes a noticeably lighter boolit than I have previously produced. According to my calculations the new ww metal is real close to the 90% Pb composition vs. the 96 to 97% I am used to.

You fellows that know about such stuff -- have they changed the composition of ww metal that much or did I just get some abnormal aberration?

[RED BEAR]

I don't sort ww just smelt them 3 or 4 times and use the skim for shotgun shot.i don't hunt and only use shotgun for blasting away for fun at range. I have never used an actual allow use scrap lead and ww to harden.

[lightman]

Yes, clip on wheel weight alloy has changed. I'm not sure exactly when but it has. Probably 15 or more years ago. It used to have a little less lead and a little more alloy. Newer clip on alloy should be 95+ %PB, a little less than 1%SN and 2.5-3% SB. Bullets from the newer alloy should be heavier not lighter. But not by much. Are you sure of your measurements?

Sorting weights:
I've sorted enough weights over the last couple of years to be a self appointed expert! I start off by dumping a bunch out on a flat surface. A scrap piece of plywood works well. Then I start cherry picking. I start with the trash. Tire stickers, valve stems, brake pads, lug nuts ect. Then I go after the stick ons. Remember there are steel and zinc stick ons too. A magnet helps with this. The lead is pretty distinctive looking but the steel and zinc look similar. Then I go after the steel clip on weights. This leaves the zinc and lead weights. I start by looking at each weight briefly. Any suspicious weight goes into a pile to be cut. After you find a few zinc weights you get a feel for them. Like a radar. They look different, feel different and often have zinc, zn or a z printed on them. You don't need high leverage pliers for this. A lot of us use a pair of electricians dykes, or diagonal cutters. I put the different type weights in their own buckets.

Posting my method of sorting may be more than you ask for but maybe it will help. Others use different methods with ok results.

[Hossfly]

Keep your melt temp at around 650’ and the errant zinc weight will be floating around and not melt, just skim out with clips.

[earlmck]

Bullets from the newer alloy should be heavier not lighter. But not by much. Are you sure of your measurements?

To quote Grover "Oh I am so embarrassed!"

I weighed correctly. I was just comparing the wrong boolit. I was comparing boolits made in my newer 6-cavity to boolits made in an old 2-cavity I forgot all about ever owning. Ooops!

When I compare boolits made from the same mold my new wheelweight metal now appears to be exactly the same composition as the ingots I purchased a few years ago from a fellow Castboolitteer who periodically sells ingots on this forum.

And thanks much for your tutorial on sorting lightman. That's pretty close to how we were trying to work it toward the end of our session but we both were finding our "instincts" were not working 100% in detecting zinc clip-ons and were still testing regularly with the cutters. On the bright side, my friend was going to keep a half-bucket back for use with his tire-balancing machine but we found so many fine zinc weights he realizes there's no need to keep any lead ones.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup lead is cheaper then antimony and tin. No good reason why any ww manufacturer would add more tin or antimony to ww. If anything ive noticed through the years that there softer then they used to be.

[mold maker]

Last time I attempted to clean WWs I found that the lead only made up 55% of the mix. Either another caster had cherry picked the large lead ones, or the mix was so lacking in lead that it was no longer worth the effort. Having tonnage already in clean ingots makes for a different thought on the subject.
If I were just starting out, I would still get what I could, but would look seriously at a range to mine or other sources.
When depending on melt temp to eliminate zinc, be aware that the pots inner surface is much hotter than the melt. Thus any zinc can still be held against the hotter surface and melt into the alloy.

[ioon44]

"When depending on melt temp to eliminate zinc, be aware that the pots inner surface is much hotter than the melt. Thus any zinc can still be held against the hotter surface and melt into the alloy."

This a good point, I have found a partially melted zinc weight in a 700 deg F pot if I miss a few after hand sorting but never has caused a problem casting good bullets.

[Dusty Bannister]

Just to give you an idea of what is in your COWW this is a bit of information from Bill Ferguson when he was still participating on lists.
Jan 2008
Original spec was/is 3% antimony, 0.25 % tin, 0.17% Arsenic balance lead.
The report was the spec is still adhered to however there was 0.5% tin.
This has been the 'real' specification since the mid 1970s.

Of course this was before we had members that would perform the XRF scan for a clear idea of what the individual blend of alloys are. It is also why some folks have COWW at 9 BHN and others at 14.5 BHN.

[FredBuddy]

The labels on the boxes of wheel weights
that the local tire shop uses only list
94 % lead and 6 % antimony.

[Conditor22]

To speed up sorting WW I use a magnet. first I touch the end of the COWW on the magnet -- eliminate the FN -- steel
then I look for ZN (zinc) usually very visible, I tap longer weights on the magnet and the zinc makes a tinny sound
as always I have my dikes (side cutters) for any weight that's not obvious.

If your really interested/concerned about the content, contact BNE.

[RogerDat]

Yes, clip on wheel weight alloy has changed. I'm not sure exactly when but it has. Probably 15 or more years ago. It used to have a little less lead and a little more alloy. Newer clip on alloy should be 95+ %PB, a little less than 1%SN and 2.5-3% SB. Bullets from the newer alloy should be heavier not lighter. But not by much. Are you sure of your measurements?

Sorting weights:
I've sorted enough weights over the last couple of years to be a self appointed expert! I start off by dumping a bunch out on a flat surface. A scrap piece of plywood works well. Then I start cherry picking. I start with the trash. Tire stickers, valve stems, brake pads, lug nuts ect. Then I go after the stick ons. Remember there are steel and zinc stick ons too. A magnet helps with this. The lead is pretty distinctive looking but the steel and zinc look similar. Then I go after the steel clip on weights. This leaves the zinc and lead weights. I start by looking at each weight briefly. Any suspicious weight goes into a pile to be cut. After you find a few zinc weights you get a feel for them. Like a radar. They look different, feel different and often have zinc, zn or a z printed on them. You don't need high leverage pliers for this. A lot of us use a pair of electricians dykes, or diagonal cutters. I put the different type weights in their own buckets.

Posting my method of sorting may be more than you ask for but maybe it will help. Others use different methods with ok results.

This is pretty much my approach except that I use something with low sides and set it on my lap. I find the short travel for lap to hand speeds things up, I keep the buckets close enough that a quick flip allows me to toss each in correct bucket. I do use a long handled pair of diagonal cutters but by now I'm just confirming what I see. In 10 hundred plus batches I have had one (1) zinc WW floating on the melt. I'm going to blame wife coming past after a shower in a towel for causing that issue.

Current lap tray is plastic drawer from one of those plastic organizer things they sell in big box stored with all the plastic bins. But anything of right size for lap with a couple inches or so of side to keep things from sliding off would work. Also lap is about right distance for my vision to be sharp which also helps.

Zinc and steel goes to scrap yard and funds more lead purchases. Sorted increases the value. I did once or twice wonder if it was worth second pot to melt zinc WW's in and make pure ingots. I would think they would get a higher price than they would with clips. Too lazy I guess, or focused, that's it focused.

[RogerDat]

worth noting that if one is paying over 40 cents a pound for a bucket that yields just over 55% lead your cost per pound for lead is very close to buying finished ingots from a vendor or member in swapping and selling on the forum.

Mold maker has an excellent point, starting out even smaller quantities are worth getting even if it takes some effort, as long as the price isn't too high. Once you have a stash built up one can get more selective. Building up a stash is in my mind done by steadily budgeting funds to purchase lead. That and consistently looking for sources. Can't find any local deals? Then buy this months purchase from here on the forum. Or set the money aside. Might find a big deal next month or can purchase in larger quantity on forum to save on shipping.

As long as you buy more than you use it grows, if you are looking you will eventually find the "deal" that starts to add significant amount of lead. Or score of tin, or .... At least that is what worked for me.

[jsizemore]

After a ton of WW's you'll get the hang of what is and isn't what your looking for. Bring your smelting temp up slow so you minimize zinc contamination or start with some clean melt in the bottom of your pot. There's a couple sticky's with WW data that BNE did for us which is a great guide to WW alloy composition. No way you can learn this stuff overnight. I can sort a full 5 gal. bucket while smelting a 5gal bucket. Practice, practice.