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Thread: Enfield 303, need info.

  1. #1
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    Enfield 303, need info.

    Hi guys...

    A number 4 1/2 followed me home. My first. I always wanted one of these, and have plenty of brass as it’s always been on my list to get one, but with no FFL around, ordering one has been out of the question. What I don’t have is a set of Dies.. been looking around online and see that fireforming is the way to go apparently, followed by neck sizing? I need to get tooled up. Need some input on this please. And a set of Die’s.

    I did slug the weapon and found it to run 309-310ish. I guess I am lucky there from what I have read. I drove one of them new to me Hammer of Thor’s 160g sized to 311 and it really engaged well with real nice grooves. Looks like it was re-barreled at some point as the rifling is strong. A bit of grunge in the cone, but that is taken care of. Haven’t figured out all the stamps on and around the hardware, but being it’s a 1/2 it must have been in the shop for a make-over. I am planning to jump straight to 18g of 2400 (around 1800fps) and 13g of red dot (around 1400fps) to see how things go. Anything I miss???

    Marko
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  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I would do a pound cast of the throat and ensure your bullets fit that, rather than to the groove diameter of the barrel.

    Even if the groove diameter is as tight as you saw, throat size determines bullet size.

    Barrel dimensions you cite are suspect, as they are 0.002-0.003" less than minimum specs.

    Is the barrel a 2-groove or 5 groove, or something else? To accurately measure a 5-groove barrel you need a V-block

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  3. #3
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    There should be a tiny number stamped on your rifle's bolt head. If it's 0 - 2 you'll do fine with a regular die set. If it's a 3 you're at maximum headspace and will want a neck sizing die.

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    It is a 5 grove... and No vblock in sight here.

    Also the bolt face is stamped with a 0 so that is good....

    I will attempt a pound cast of the throat when I get a chance in the next day or 2 as schedule permits and post
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Markopolo,

    I have many .303 arms on establishment and reload for them all. Reloading dies are readily available from all die makers. I suggest you let your .303 tell you how much to resize your brass. Many .303 reloaders abide by the foolish die maker's advice to run the sizer down tight to the shell holder. WRONG!

    Resize brass just enough to get a slight crunch fit in each individual .303. Label your reloads to that specific rifle. I have .303s that need a one-eight backoff of the resizer, while another old MkIII, long in the tooth, needs a 1.25 turn backoff. I enjoy long brass life by reloading for each specific .303 which includes SMLEs and P-14s.

    I hope this helps.

    Adam

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    It is a 5 grove... and No vblock in sight here.

    Also the bolt face is stamped with a 0 so that is good....

    I will attempt a pound cast of the throat when I get a chance in the next day or 2 as schedule permits and post
    If you are measuring .309-.310 across a 5-groove slug from top of land to bottom of groove, assuming the depth of rifling being 0.005" at mean tolerance, you probably have a .315" barrel, and if you also have a wartime chamber, you can expect a throat diameter of .316+ But NOE makes a fine clone of the Ideal #299 bullet in a .316" diameter which should work well for you.
    Accurate 31-215B is another good bullet for the .303 if you like a flat nose.
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  7. #7
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    You mean a Pound Cast like what is Posted here???

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...a-rifle-throat
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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    That will work, but so will dropping a soft lead .38 Special slug into the chamber, and driving it into the chamber neck with a 3/8" brass rod, having its end well rounded and polished. Drive the slug in until the brass rod comes to a firm stop against the shoulder of the chamber, then tap the slug out and measure it.

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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    It is a 5 grove... and No vblock in sight here.

    You can measure a 5 groove bore slug by taking a piece of copy paper, measuring its thickness before wrapping it tightly around the slug and taking a measurement.
    You then subtract twice the thickness of the copy paper to get your final measurement.
    ukrifleman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    You mean a Pound Cast like what is Posted here???

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...a-rifle-throat
    Actually Mr Outpost, that link I sent ya is me. I was AlaskanGuy, but when I moved farther out into the Bush in SE Alaska, I didn’t have internet for a couple years. When I got satellite internet and electrical power, I had forgotten my passwords and made this new account and just started over with the new account. I didn’t want to pester the mods about trying to recover my old account. ... now I am back..

    My biggest problem is trying to find the right sized something to pound in there. Obviously my normal 30 cal bullets are gunna be too small, and I dont cast for 38.. I do have a 7.5 x 55 bullet mold I could use possibly. If memory serves it used to cast big, but haven’t used it for many years. My biggest problem is My pot is filled with the perfect alloy for my 30 Carbine, and I need dead soft lead... so in order to manufacture something to pound, I gotta cast about 600-800 bullets or so to get the pot empty enough to drop something soft into. I could try to squish a roundball in there...lol or I could use a torch and heat up a spoonful of lead into the Swiss mold.. sheesh.. what a Pita.. (Pain In The ...) I am just being lazy I guess...lol ok ok. I will get on it.

    Marko
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

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    Great Idea UKRifleman...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

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    IF you have pure soft lead, you can cut a piece about the right size, hammer it into an approximate shape and use that.

  13. #13
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    As far as i'm concerned alloy don't really matter when i slug rifles. I do it at the muzzle with someting like 8mm boolit for a 303, 303 for a 30 cal etc. You have a no4mk1/2, it means that you have an english no4mk1 that was upgraded to the mk2 standard after the war. You have a really good rifle in your hands. Many of them have a very good, like new barrel. I don't think 0.309-0.310'' grooves diameter is possible, i have yet to see a tight barrel like that. The brand new barrel spec is more like 0.3125''. The rule of thumb for no4 rifles is to use a 0.314'' boolit, if it's larger than that it's always somewhat finicky. This is what i try first. I have really good results using RCBS 2 dies set with an extra neck sizer and factory crimp die from LEE. Best molds i found for the no4 are (to this date, there's also few untested prospects and mold modification projects in the shop...) Lee TL314-90-SWC, Ideal 311413, NOE 316-167-FN-AS2 and NOE 316299. I use shotgun powder for the lighter boolits and IMR4198 for the NOE316299. Custom molds may seem pricy but the affordables molds from LEE needs modifications to work properly in no4 rifles. I always use gas checks when it's possible and i set my sights somewhere between 400 and 600 yards to find my zero with issue sights (you can also find a front sight kit on ebay to get your zero from there). The number on your bolthead dosen't matter as long as the headspace is tight, you can find gauges for that on ebay.
    Last edited by Kegcaissy; 01-21-2019 at 05:28 PM.
    We really need a Ar-15 subforum!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    If you have any fishing weights they are usually soft enough.
    jim

  15. #15
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    I'd just measure the inside dia of a couple of fired cases and start there, having loaded for over 20 or so 303's I wouldn't waste powder shooting a boolit under .315.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT303 View Post
    I'd just measure the inside dia of a couple of fired cases and start there, having loaded for over 20 or so 303's I wouldn't waste powder shooting a boolit under .315.
    This is another good trick i've found useful while checking a garand...
    We really need a Ar-15 subforum!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    For what it's worth, I've got a No.4 MKI from the late 1950's, a No.1. MKIII* that was FTR rebuilt in 1953, and a P14. The bores all pin gauged .302"-.304" and the grooves V-blocked .3145"-.315". Thus far, I've only done load workup on the No.4 (best combo of bore and sights). It likes the NOE 316299GC cast of 93/3/3 (ish) push-through sized at .316, then heat treated & water quenched. Finding that Accurate 5744 is making for a nice duplicate of the pre-WWI MKI-MKVI ammo at around 2000 fps.

    I'm using a Redding S-type neck sizer with the replaceable bushings that let you play in .001" increments for neck tension.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    100 yard group on the left is the happy stuff. Group on the right was just an experiment to see if bad sprue cuts would negatively affect group size - they did.
    WWJMBD?

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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy iron brigade's Avatar
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    I have 3 Enfield rifles, p14, long branch 2 groove and a Lithgow smle. All shoot the NOE 316299 superbly. Load is 14.5 grains of blue dot or 13 grains of red dot also known as "the load" and it is. The long branch with its 2 groove bore shoots lights out with the blue dot load. The 303 British is an accurate round and the rifles are exceptional shooters.

  19. #19
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    Ahhhh.. a fellow “the load” believer.. I use the load in all sorts of stuff and am a firm believer. I haven’t tried the blue dot for 30 cal, but have used it for 223 and 22-250 plinkers using Seafires specifics and form. Just never got around to trying it, and I use red dot for the other stuff...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  20. #20
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	234507Another way of slugging a bore is with candle wax.

    Make sure the bore is clean and dry, push a paper plug down the bore as far as you need and tamp it from both sides with some wooden dowel to make a wax proof seal.

    Stand the rifle muzzle down and carefully pour the wax into the bore from the chamber end until the chamber is full and leave it to cool.

    Be careful not to let the wax get into the locking lug recesses as it is a PITA t get out and it will prevent the slug from moving.

    Once the wax has cooled and set and you are sure that there is no overspill of wax into the locking lug recesses, gently tap it out with a wooden dowel from the muzzle end.

    Take care when taking measurements, as wax slugs are relatively fragile and soft and you will get a false measurement if you are heavy handed with the calipers.

    The other advantage of wax slugs is that you get a chamber cast, as well as a good idea of the condition of the rifling.

    ukrifleman
    Last edited by ukrifleman; 01-22-2019 at 04:41 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check