lee neck sizer question

[crankycalico]

I used my lee neck sizer on some 308 brass for the first time. A slight peculiarity has happened.

Using the die, I can get a hornady .310 round ball to go completely inside the neck. And tension holds it in good.

And I can get a 170 grain .310/.311 diameter true shot flgc to slide ENTIRELY into the neck with no resistance or case tension.

A fired case only lets me get HALF the round ball to go in. And does NOT let me slide the bullet slide into the case mouth at all.

Should I be worried or should I be happy that I have easier time making round ball loads?

[fred2892]

Sounds like the die needs adjusting as the collet isn’t squeezing the case neck onto the mandrel.


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[megasupermagnum]

Take the mandrel out and measure it. You see a number of people complain about light neck tension with jacketed bullets using this die, but never with cast. They do sell a .002" undersized mandrel, but it should not be needed for cast. There is no adjustment you can do to the die, I set mine so the handle is about horizontal, but does not lock over. I get better feel that way. Force on the handle is about the same as full length sizing, then I turn the case 90 degrees and do it again.

[fred2892]

The further the die is screwed down the more the collet will squeeze the neck onto the mandrel. If you go too far you can pop the top of the die out and trash the threads. Not screwed down enough and the neck won’t be squeezed onto the mandrel enough. That’s the adjustment.


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[MT Chambers]

Insert die into trash can, buy a proper neck sizing die, depending on your budget, the Redding bushing neck sizing dies are best, with their interchangeable bushings, but any GOOD neck sizing die should work.

[toallmy]

Are you using a lee collet neck sizing die ?

[crankycalico]

Are you using a lee collet neck sizing die ?

yep, comes in the 4 die set.

[megasupermagnum]

The further the die is screwed down the more the collet will squeeze the neck onto the mandrel. If you go too far you can pop the top of the die out and trash the threads. Not screwed down enough and the neck won’t be squeezed onto the mandrel enough. That’s the adjustment.


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That is not true, unless you have a press that doesn't cam over. Even still, the Lee dies cannot be adjusted. It either works, or it doesn't. The Mandrel determines the ID of the case neck, not the collet. The Lee collet neck sizing die is the best neck sizing die on the market.

[fred2892]

You obviously don’t understand how the lee die works. The mandrel determines the neck i.d. But only if the collet squeeezes the neck onto the mandrel. If the die is adjusted too far out then the collet won’t do that.


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[popper]

Yea, got that thing with a 243 kit, trash it. 308 brass is too thick for it to work well. If you really just want to neck size, use the Fl die and don't push the shoulder back. Lee set is not a BR type die set. It depends on what you are trying to do.

[1hole]

You obviously don’t understand how the lee die works. The mandrel determines the neck i.d. But only if the collet squeeezes the neck onto the mandrel. If the die is adjusted too far out then the collet won’t do that.

Absolutely true. And the difference between adjusted too far out and to far in can be as small as a quarter turn - or less. That means there is a learning curve to the best neck die ever made for SAAMI chambers but there are quite a few who will not take the time or thought to understand and use it correctly so they blame the die for their poor results. ???

There is a yet unmentioned factor that impacts how well sized necks remain the size of the mandrel, button or expander ball - spring back. As cases are reused they become work hardened, the increasing spring back may/will result in reduced neck "grip". IMO, the only cure is new cases or annealed/softened necks. In the OP's "round ball" situation I'd not worry about it.

[megasupermagnum]

NOT TRUE. It is possible to wrongly adjust it, but read the instructions. You should not be camming over a press, meaning the handle should not be bottoming out. I trusted the OP knew this, but if this many people are confused, perhaps not. With the die screwed into the press as the Lee instructions state, there is no adjustment. It is way easier to figure out than a full length sizing die, there should be minimal learning curve.

[fred2892]

NOT TRUE. It is possible to wrongly adjust it, but read the instructions. You should not be camming over a press, meaning the handle should not be bottoming out. I trusted the OP knew this, but if this many people are confused, perhaps not. With the die screwed into the press as the Lee instructions state, there is no adjustment. It is way easier to figure out than a full length sizing die, there should be minimal learning curve.

Make your mind up. You say it can’t be adjusted and now you say it is possible to wrongly adjust it. Yes it can be wrongly adjusted, that was my point.
And like 1hole says. Springback can make all the difference in neck tension. My brass is annealed regularly and I have custom mandrels for both jacketed and cast to allow for this.


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[1hole]

Lee's collet die must be adjusted exactly as any other die is adjusted; screw it up or down until we get the desired effect. It must be adjusted down far enough for the collet to close but not passed the diameter of the mandrel. After that, further adjusting down accomplishes nothing to the case but does exert vastly increasing force on the die's soft aluminum top cap.

Press "cam-over" is a greatly misunderstood mechanical term. All it means is the lever/toggle has rotated enough to raise the ram passed Top Dead Center and the ram has started back down; at that point the toggle has "cammed over" TDC.

No matter the press design, i.e., cam over or positive stop, they both do exactly the same thing for us - they push cases into the dies and pull them back out. They feel slightly different in use but there is no inherent mechanical advantage in either toggle design. Either way, proper die adjustment is (usually) determined at the maximum high point of the ram's travel.

I have absolutely no problem using Lee's excellent collet neck dies after properly converting military .308 and .30-06 cases to .243.

[tankgunner59]

crankycalico, first off what press are you using?
Look at the instructions for the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die. Follow the instructions for the press you are using. If you're using a "cam over" type press, the instructions say to screw the neck sizing die in until it touches the shell holder, then add two full turns. This prevents cam over and you will feel the collet closing.
The instructions say for better neck tension to operate the press then rotate the case 180 degrees and press again. I always press the case, turn it 90 degrees and press and repeat two more times. I have two of these dies for my bolt guns and I can't freely slide a bullet or a boolit into either one without slightly expanding the neck.
Hope this helps you out.
If you need to see the instructions I will copy the one for my 30-06 Springfield and post it for you.

[Larry Gibson]

I have and use three Lee .308W collet sizers. One I use for 7.62x54R, one for loads using 7.62 LC match cases and one for using Winchester .308W cases. I also have Lee collet dies for a couple other cartridges.

The Lee collet sizer certainly is adjustable. It can be easily adjusted to give no sizing or the maximum amount the mandrel will allow by following Lee's instructions as tankgunner59 mentions. You can vary the amount of sizing the collet does o the neck by screwing the die body out a bit once it is adjusted as mentioned. Screwing the die body out a bit adjusts the amount of sizing the collet does to the neck thus adjusting neck tension you can put on the bullet assuming necks of equal thickness.

For cast bullets sized .310 - .311 I adjust the die so the small diameter of the 31 M-die expander is a tight slip fit in the neck. Then the case mouth is only expanded/flared. Doing so minimally work hardens the case neck. Measuring the concentricity of loaded rounds shows minimal runout.

Once the collet die is properly adjusted as per the instructions or for full sizing for the thinnest necked cases to be used I mark the lock ring and die threads with a magic marker. That way I can back out the die an appropriate amount using the indexing marks as a guide.

BTW; the .308W collet die used for NSing the 7.62x54R Norma cases is adjusted to give just .002 - .003 neck tension on .314 sized cast bullets. Thus sized they won't hold .308 - .311 bullets at all but hold the .314 sized bullets splendidly.

[megasupermagnum]

Guys, it is the easiest die there is to use, quit trying to make it hard. Tankgunner59 is correct, but I'll post the instructions straight out of the Instructions sent with every Lee neck sizing die.

Adjustment for Lee presses (this is completely optional)- Screw sizing die in until it contacts the shell holder, plus one more turn (1 3/4 turns for Classic Series press owners)

Adjustment for other brands (also works on Lee presses)- Screw collet necksizing die in until it makes firm contact with shell holder , plus 2 more turns (It doesn't say, but you should raise the ram first). This will prevent the press from toggling over center and give the operator feel of the collet closing. Presses that toggle or snap over center at the end of the stroke provide no feel and can damage the collet necksizing die if not adjusted properly.

Tighter bullet fit- As delivered from the factory, the collet die will grip the bullet with a light press fit and cases of average hardness. For a tighter fit, you can anneal the case neck or polish the decapper mandrel .001" smaller. Do not go beyond .001" smaller as there will be no increase in bullet pull, and a decrease in accuracy as the bullet will then be sizing the neck as it is inserted.

Option- Even greater accuracy can be obtained by rotating the case one-half turn and then sizing the case a second time.

Also optional is to buy a .002" smaller mandrel. As you can see, if you are following the instructions at all, there is no adjustment. Of course anyone can find a way to mess up even simple instructions. The mandrel forms the ID of the neck. There can be differences in spring back, but it will be WAY more accurate than trying to back out the die to give custom sizes. You might as well use a bushing die at that point, which is not as accurate as the Lee die when using it properly. If you need competition level accuracy, you should not be using neck sizing only dies anyway.

It is that easy. Turn the die in until it touches, plus 2 turns. That's it, no adjustments. If you need more neck tension, either polish the mandrel .001", or buy the .002" smaller mandrel.

[tigweldit]

Lots of good advice here. My $.02's. I like the lee collet neck sizing die. Before you start, clean the die. Make sure the slots in the collet are clean and free of any obstructions that could prevent full compression.

[tankgunner59]

Thanks AndyB1 and mega, that is where I get my info. AS my wife always says, when in doubt refer to the instructions. Yeah, I know. I always knew she was Mrs. right, I just didn't know until we were married that her first name is Always!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lots of good advice here. My $.02's. I like the lee collet neck sizing die. Before you start, clean the die. Make sure the slots in the collet are clean and free of any obstructions that could prevent full compression.

I will add my 2¢ on top of tigweldit's 2¢.

I've own many Lee Collet neck sizer dies...maybe 15 of them?
anyway, two of them (that I bought new) were 'sticky' during use, even after I cleaned them. I compared the insides of these new sticky dies to older Lee Collet NS dies I own. The new sticky ones were rough (machine lines) where the old one's were smooth...as in polished smooth. Once I polished those areas on the New dies, they functioned much better.

As to the OP, His statement seemed to defy logic, unless his .310 RB doesn't measure .310 ???