.38 S&W is prudent gunsmith’s choice to restore antique rook rifles.

[Drm50]

I loaded a box of 38S&W a couple months ago for a friend that inherited his dad's house gun. A H&R break top
from 60s, like new. He went to Cabelas and they wanted $38 and change for a box of 50, Rem I think. I do see where you are coming from. I've done a few 25rfs to 32short with salvaged barrels. Biggest PIA is to convert to
CF. Bought a Hopkins and Allen basket case that was labeled 25rf at action. Turned out to be 25/20 single shot.
I haven't figured out what I'm going to make out of it. Leaning 32 long if I can find barrel.

[Traffer]

Thanks for the great thread.
I have a project on the back burner... bought an old break open 12 ga receiver for making a 22 WMR test gun. I plan on reloading 22 WMR in the future. I now need one of these guns. So I will have to make a barrel for the 38 S&W and rifle it to 1/10 It won't be a vintage rook rifle but I will love it just the same.

[BAGTIC]

I would like to have a custom 38S&W but at my age and budget I have about given up. Instead I use 357 brass in a 357 chamber and simply seat the projectile deeply. In a single shot gun that does not present a problem as there are not feeding problems. It even works with .360 diameter lead balls (69grain) for small game. The RB seated directly on 4 grains of RD works fine. I prefer Red Dot because it is so bulky that low loading density has never been a problem.

[Cheshire Dave]

How well do you think a Stevens 101 44 shot gun would work? With the takedown Barrel it seems like it would be easy to make a second barrel for the gun and it's already a Centerfire. Seems like just a barrel and a separate extractor and you could keep the original 44 shot Barrel.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

[uscra112]

Frank DeHaas' opinion was that the Model 101 would stand .38 Special "if only the very lightest loads were used". I have two, and keep looking for a .32 barrel for one to make a .32 Long Colt rifle. Personally I think that .38 is a bit risky, unless I deliberately cut the chamber short, and the brass likewise, to keep factory loads out of it. It's true that a good many 101s were rechambered to .410, and I've never seen any reports that they broke or blew up, but I'll bet they never got shot much either. The recoil in that 4 pound gun was probably a little "sharp". The extractor is a stinker to make from scratch, but you could find one from a Model 12 Marksman and trim it.

[Outpost75]

How well do you think a Stevens 101 44 shot gun would work? With the takedown Barrel it seems like it would be easy to make a second barrel for the gun and it's already a Centerfire. Seems like just a barrel and a separate extractor and you could keep the original 44 shot Barrel. Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk

That should work fine. I used an old H&R .44 shotgun as a donor action for one of my Bunny Gun projects and had John make a .44-40 barrel for it and a .45 Colt. VERY happy with it. I still have the .44 shotgun barrel for it, and a .410 I have off another action also fits it. Sometimes you get lucky. Not always.

[uscra112]

Um, Outpost, the old Stevens 101 isn't a patch on that H&R for strength. It was originally a .22 rimfire action, with option for .25RF and .32RF. Just sayin. He should keep his loads very light.

[Jedman]

You have to remember that nearly all of the early Stevens rimfire rifles were mainly scaled for kids or smaller people. They were made as low priced as they could be and most will shoot loose even with today's hi speed 22 ammo. I am not saying they were junk by any means but just a low priced rifle to learn to shoot with. I don't think Stevens would ever barrel one for even the lightest 38 S&W cartridge. I have owned several of the early Stevens rifles and the main action parts like the firing pin, extractor, linkage pins, ect. are all very small and are just adequate for light 22 rf.
I have some doubts if the small mainspring arrangement on the M 101 would have enough power to fire centerfire primers ?
I have a early Stevens tip up that was a 12 ga. Shotgun that I rebarreled to 38 spl. It has a ruggedly built frame and the flat sided barrel is fitted well into the receiver and the pivot for the barrel is as close to inline with the bore as possible and that gives it strength.
That rifle is a bit heavy to call a garden gun or rook rifle but will hold up well to even 38 spl + p loads.

Jedman

[uscra112]

You hit upon the greatest weakness of the Marksman series, Jedman. The hammer is too light and the mainspring too weak. It will fire pistol primers, I know from testing, but it's not up to modern rimfire cases, which are thicker and stiffer than the copper that was still typical in 1912. Misfire rate is high, and when I tried my homemade .25 Stevens (reformed .17 HMR) it wouldn't fire them at all.

Occurs to me to mention the post-1900 Hopkins and Allen falling-block boys' rifle. It is quite up to the .38; it was sold new chambered for the .38 rimfire version. A 922 or 925 is easily converted to centerfire by making a new link.

[Ajohns]

uscra112, you think the H&A 932 is capable of handling 38 Smith and Wesson? I have one right now converted to 32 S&W long, always thought 38 would be fun. I have 38's loaded light for my third model Smith double action, they're a hoot.

[uscra112]

uscra112, you think the H&A 932 is capable of handling 38 Smith and Wesson? I have one right now converted to 32 S&W long, always thought 38 would be fun. I have 38's loaded light for my third model Smith double action, they're a hoot.

Certainly. I wouldn't go to .38 Special, because there's some +P+ ammo on the market that rivals .357 magnum, but .38 S&W, sure. What little commercial .38 SW ammo there is, (is there indeed any?), will be loaded safe for the old revolvers. I'm attaching a photo of an H&A catalog showing that there was indeed a 938 model specifically for the S&W centerfire cartridge in the 1900-1914 period. I'd have done one already, save that I have umpteen dozen other projects ahead of it.

[Jedman]

I also have a H & A model 922 rifle in 22 rf. It is sturdy enough for some low powered centerfire cartridges but mine has a good bore so it will stay a 22 LR.
The weak point in these rifles is the removable barrel, having a decently sized cross bolt that passes thru a rounded cut on the bottom of the barrel shank.
It does keep the barrel snug well but I don't know why most of the early rifles had this takedown feature ? I doubt many owners took the barrel off very often as you can clean them easily by opening the action.

Jedman

[Ajohns]

Very well then, thank you. I may just have a new project in line. Was not aware they went bigger than 32, should've did some more homework. These little gems are a nice petite arm, make fine pop guns.

[uscra112]

The selling point of the takedown was that it made it possible to pack the gun into a trunk or even a large suitcase. This was important, because back then any long-distance travel at all was done on trains. Stevens and some others also sold "bicycle rifles", takedowns that could easily be packed on a bicycle. The Model 18 Favorite even had a neat leather and canvas accessory case that hung under the upper frame bar of a full-size man's bike.

[Outpost75]

Um, Outpost, the old Stevens 101 isn't a patch on that H&R for strength. It was originally a .22 rimfire action, with option for .25RF and .32RF. Just sayin. He should keep his loads very light.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Chev. William]

I also have a H & A model 922 rifle in 22 rf. It is sturdy enough for some low powered centerfire cartridges but mine has a good bore so it will stay a 22 LR.
The weak point in these rifles is the removable barrel, having a decently sized cross bolt that passes thru a rounded cut on the bottom of the barrel shank.
It does keep the barrel snug well but I don't know why most of the early rifles had this takedown feature ? I doubt many owners took the barrel off very often as you can clean them easily by opening the action.

Jedman

Remember that most Urban Travel was by Public Transit means and a take down rifle packed in a case was much less threatening to fellow passengers.
Sport target shooting and Competitions were much more popular in the late 1890s and on into the 1920s, before the 1929 'crash' reduced everyone's spending.

Chev. William

[samari46]

I once asked Michael Petrov in Alaska about a new barrel for one of the cadet martini's. Had no plans to hot rod the cartridge and he suggested 38 special. Plenty of brass ( I have a 40mm ammo can full of 38 special brass), plenty of different bullets both cast and jacketed and no reason to bush the firing pin. I have no argument with the OP with the 38 S&W cartridge. Not very far from the 38 special. And in light of the various break open actions or really fancy english rook rifles probably a pretty good choice. I'm just using plentiful brass I have,its all once fired from ccw courses so I know its pedigree. Matter of fact swept up a lot of it when the classes were over. Mixed wadcutter and jacketed brass. And have a Douglas barrel blank with a 1x14 twist. Frank

[Chev. William]

Only partiality on topic:
A while Back I bought an old "Winchester" leather carrying case for a take down rifle off of Ebay. It was in deteriorated Condition with rotting sitching so I had a local Saddle maker go over i tan drestore it with new Sitching and leather Treatments.

It Turned out very well but it is NOT fo ra Winchester 1890 of 24 inch barrel length as it is too shor to allow the disassembled rifle to fit with the cover closed. It appears tt fit a 20 or 21 inch barreled one though.
the case is rectangular in section; with a divider to separate the Stock end part form the barrel end part, opening on one end rather than from the Long sides. 'Winchester' is 'branded' into the Leather and the closure latch has a lock built into it; so it is a 'Locking Cary Case' as originally made.

I am thinking it will make a 'neat' case for my project .25ACP converted Winchester 1890 pump rifle with it's 20 inch, lined, barrel.

Chev. William

[BigEyeBob]

I have an early Francotte martini small frame in 380 Rook that is in good condition .The action does not come apart like the later BSA martinis where the guts comes out in an inner frame .The barrel has full length top rib that is part of the barrel and nicely engraved for its full length.The stock is straight hand and checkered ,fore end is splinter type ,and checkered with horn tip.Markings on the Barrel state TAndrews ,London 380Rook.The bore has some slight pitting but is pretty good shape for its age .First job was to strip it down and clean the 120yrs or so of oil,dirt and gunk out of the action oil and reassemble then I cleaned up the stock and fore end cleaning the grime out of the checker with an old tooth brush ,then a few applications of my red oil mix rubbed in buy had to generate heat to finish the timber .I slugged the bore and this is where I got a surprize , the slug measured 362" over the grooves .mmmm 380 Rook should be 375" .So my rifle is 360 No5 .
The two cartridges are almost ldentical the 380 uses a heeled projectile where as the 360 has a inside lubed one .The person I acquired the rifle from had a mould from CBE that dropped a 378 projectile but had not made any bullets and obviously had not slugged the bore.I thought of swaging these down in a home made die , but on advice from Dave Commens from CBE ,I decided to get him to knock a new mould up for me ,so a 375 mould arrived the other day ,and Im planning to cast some of those .Ive already modified some 50x 38 special cases to load up in the future . Id rather stick to the original caliber than change it to some thing else , I load some very obscure cartridges and 360 No 5 is a fairly easy one to do.

[uscra112]

That's neat. I see that the case of the 360 Rook is longer than our .38 S&W, too. Pics would be nice.