BHN of commercial Boolits

[GregLaROCHE]

What is the BHN of commercial lead boolits sold for loading handgun cartridges? Is it the same for lead boolits in factory loaded cartridges ?

Thanks

[GregLaROCHE]

I posted this and nothing showed up. I thought I had done something wrong so I posted it again. Then they both showed up. I tried to delete one, but I couldn’t find where to do it. Can someone tell me how or just delete one.

Thanks

[lightman]

It been my experience that they are hard. Harder than factory which seem to be fairly soft and harder than the wheel weight alloy that I typically cast with. Some of the reason for this may be for trying to avoid damage during shipping.

If you want to, I think you can close one of your post.

[ioon44]

When I was commercial casting using 6-2-92 alloy it ran around 16 BHN and this still is what most commercial lead bullets run.

[razorfish]

Most commercial bullet casters sell “Hard Cast” Bullets. This is 92-6-2 alloy and the hardness is 18 BHN.

There are exceptions such as Missouri Bullet Company which sells “Hardness Optimized Bullets”. Basically they have learned that not all bullets need to be hard cast alloy and softer alloys work better in some calibers.

With coated bullets (PC, Hi-Tek, etc) we have all learned you can get away with a softer alloy and properly sized, we get better results.

But, in general, the industry continues to use Hard Cast bullet alloy. 18 BHN if the foundry isn’t cheating.


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[ioon44]

Bayou bullets
"Our bullets are cast from certified 92/6/2 alloy with a BHN hardness of 16-17".

Roto metals
"Hardball Bullet Casting Alloy consists of 2% tin, 6% antimony and 92% lead. This modern version of the old Lyman #2 is an excellent all-around alloy for most handgun bullets and many higher velocity rifle cartridges. The Brinell Hardness of Hardball Alloy is about 16".

I cast tons of this stuff and it never ran 18 BHN.

[razorfish]

I was quoting Missouri Bullet Company’s claim that their 92-6-2 alloy is 18 BHN.

https://missouribullet.com



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[Wheelguns 1961]

The story that I have heard for years is they use the hardball alloy because they don’t get beat up in shipping. The hardest I cast for handguns is straight wheel weights, and I powdercoat everything. Some of these are run at around 1,500fps. The same thing with lube. Some commercial guys use that hard waxy lube because it holds up better in shipping in the summer.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I bought some close out alloy that is 88 lead, 10 antimony and 2 tin. It tested with a Lee tester for me at 18. I think I am gonna try 20 pounds of this alloy mixed with 30 pounds of pure and just under 3/4 lb of tin. Bumpos alloy calc thinks this will come in around 12 BNH. And antimony will come down to around 4 percent.

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[kevin c]

My reading is the same as lightman's: hard to stand up to shipping. I also have read that Lino, which is nominally 84-12-4 Pb-Sb-Sn, mixed one to one with pure, yields 92-6-2 Hardball, which in turn if mixed one to one with pure, gives 96-3-1, which close to COWW plus a little extra tin, and which is described by many as a good all around boolit casting alloy. I personally am using 95-3-2 for 9mm HiTek coated boolits at under 900 fps, and am considering lowering the tin to 1%.

[EDG]

Have you read any of the articles at the Los Angeles Silhouette Club site?
They have an extensive treatise on alloys and their characteristics.
Most commercial pistol bullets are hard ball alloy and you can look up its hardness almost anywhere.

What is the BHN of commercial lead boolits sold for loading
handgun cartridges? Is it the same for lead boolits in factory loaded cartridges ?

Thanks

[fredj338]

Most factory lead bullet loaded rounds use swaged bullet, so they are quite a bit softer than commercial cast.

[Outpost75]

Swaged lead bullets produced for loading ammunition for the major ammunition companies vary, depending upon the application. All is antimonial-lead alloy of 8-10 BHN hardness when fully worked. Common .38 Special wadcutter and standard velocity .22 LR is usually 1-1/2% to 2% antimony lead, whereas .38 Special +P and .22 LR high velocity ammo is generally 3% antimonial lead.

Military FMJ ammuntion in 9mm, .45 ACP, Cal. .30 M2, and APM2, 7.62mm M80 and 5.56mm M193 was generally 3% antimonial lead, but 00 buckshot, cal. .30 M72 Match, cal. .30 Ball M1 and M118 Match (before LR) and cal. .50 M33 were harder 5-6% antimonial lead, and their core wire was generally cut into 4 ft. lengths and stacked in boxes for feeding into the swaging presses, because at higher antimony content the wire is not suited to winding onto spools and will break if bent into too tight a radius.

The swaging machines at FA and LC used "back extrusion" where 100-pound, 5" diameter billets were pre-heated in a boiling water bath to the reduce extrusion force needed for the metal to flow. Two huge screws stradding the die were tightened in unison to compress the billet until three strands of wire began to emerge out the top of the die. When the wire ends emerged they would be grabbed quickly in a clamp fixture to hold them separate as they were drawn out in a straight line across the shop floor, cut into lengths, boxed and stacked onto a small rail car.

"Direct" extrusion is more common and uses a hydraulic press to press on the rear a smaller billet until the lead flows and emerges in a manner similar to squeezing a toothpaste tube. Once the yield pressure has been reached the lead may squirt out forcefully into a random pile, which really raises hell with its uniformity unless care is taken to gain control of the extrusion and wind it up onto spools as it comes.

[kevin c]

Nice bit of information there, Outpost. Did I read correctly somewhere that antimony content improves the alloy's swaging characteristics? That seems counterintuitive to me.

[RogerDat]

Hardball is a cheaper version of Lyman #2 which has approximately the same hardness but with the tin and antimony balanced they alloy with each other and form a different structure than hardball does. Commercial manufactures wanted the hardness but in a less expensive alloy. So they use a percent more of the cheaper antimony and reduce the expensive lead by 3% from Lyman #2 proportions.

If you make your own hardball and lyman #2 you will be able to tell the difference when casting. Both are fine but they are different. Higher tin gives the Lyman a different melt point and it will tend to shrink less as it cools. So hardball might help with a mold that casts large, Lyman #2 will give you all the size the mold has to offer if you need that.