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Thread: Selfishness/fear as religious motivation

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    That "pull" for me is the fear I was referencing in my original post. Maybe its just me, but I think I would be more unscrupulous in my daily life if I could guarantee getting away scot free. Fear keeps me in line. From a religious perspective, the fear of an afterlife keeps me worried about believing enough to get into whatever club you subscribe to. And I hate to come across as against religion, I was raised non-denominational christian and am glad for it as the morals impressed on me have served me well in life. But that comes back to the crux of my doubts, I value religion because it has been useful to me, not because I believe or have faith. I most identify with Thomas, I am fairly open minded, but ****** give me proof.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    There is such a thing as having to live with yourself whether you can get away with something scot free or not. If I had any associates that I knew thought that way they would no longer be my associates. How you conduct yourself when no one can know or see what you do determines what kind of character you have.
    Last edited by Don Purcell; 01-19-2019 at 07:47 PM.

  3. #23
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    I believe many pass through three stages of faith. First they believe/obey from fear, either of parents, pastors or hell. Second they believe/obey from greed, recognizing that He blesses them for righteous living. Thirdly they obey from Love. That love of the Lord pushes them to a higher state of living.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  4. #24
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    Proverbs 9:10 New International Version (NIV)

    10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
    and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Purcell View Post
    There is such a thing as having to live with yourself whether you can get away with something scot free or not. If I had any associates that I knew thought that way they would no longer be my associates. How you conduct yourself when no one can know or see what you do determines what kind of character you have.
    So thought matters more than deed? I prefer to judge based on actions.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    In a way yes. Actions can be faked you are unable to hide your heart from God
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  7. #27
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    I very much agree,man has taken traditions,and customs and turned them into doctrine. God gave his son to die so that you can draw closer to Him. This is a gift given to you becuse of His love given freely to all who would believe. To the best of my knowlage no other god has done this all other gods call for your work to receve salvation.

    Be clear there is only one God and one path to Him
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  8. #28
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    T-McD

    I was an unbeliever until just over 18 months ago. I am in my late sixties. My journey has not been easy and it continues. Most of the books recommended to me were not convincing as to God and His exsistence.

    There is no “right” religion IMHO. Anyone who speaks to you in those terms is better ignored.

    You will find churches filled with hypocrites, that does not lessen the value of the Word.

    I have reached the point I believe in God. But He is not the perfect being that religion preaches...in fact, I can find nothing in the Bible where God decrees He is perfect. But His love is perfect. That allows me to accept the inconsistencies in the Bible, why evil things happens to innocent people....especially babies and children....and how the world works.

    I was like you. Stay with it brother. God comes to us in different ways. He had to hit me a few times with a 2x4 but He got through to me.

    When you accept Jesus your life will change dramatically....and for the better.
    Last edited by dverna; 01-20-2019 at 01:05 PM.
    Don Verna


  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Don do you mean denomination or religion? If you mean denomination I agree but there is only one true religion only threw the blood of Christ are we saved
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  10. #30
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    T McD, reread what I said. What you DO (which by the way begins with a thought) when no one will ever see or know determines your character.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy MrHarmless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    So you believe god exists and most religion is a derivative of miscommunication over the years. That’s actually fairly reasonable.
    No, I'm not religious at all. But I was raised in a religious environment, and I understand it well.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rl69 View Post
    Don do you mean denomination or religion? If you mean denomination I agree but there is only one true religion only threw the blood of Christ are we saved
    You are correct....when it comes to Christians...those who believe their denomination has it right.

    But on a wider scope, God sent Jesus to the Middle East....and for whatever reason not to the Far East, or the Americas....etc. He loved/loves all these children too, and so I believe He providess for a way for them to also be saved. These other races, and regions, could not have know about Jesus or the Bible until centuries later. I believe He took care of them in His way.
    Don Verna


  13. #33
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    It feels good to do good, or have done good, does it not? If you have a conscience, it feels bad and is the source of regret to have done bad. If you do not find this to be true, then you are without principles, and a truly amoral person.

    Ancient writings do not make truths suspect or less valid because they are ancient. Sir Francis Bacon's discovery of gravity is no less valid today. The truth and existence of God does not diminish with the passage of time.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    10/4 I agree there is no one right denomination
    I have found freedom in the cowboy church but there are some things that I disagree with them about.

    Jesus was sent to Israel because that was Gods chosen people. He was sent to make a way for all to be saved Jew and gentile

    When we were instructed to spread the word,it was not to spread law,it was to tell the world Jesus had come to save it. John 3:16

    Manny have been called to shepherd the flock which is a different calling. some shepherd to the bankers,lawyers, doctors. Some to bikers. Others to cowboys ,or construction workers. In those diferent class's of people there are diferent customs ( customs not laws )

    So you throw me in with a bunch of blue haired ladies,and I start preaching like I would to a construction worker. Just stand back and watch the wreck. The flock would scatter. Manny are unable to see the value of following different customs and sadly many don't understand the difference between law and coustom

    Love your brother as you love yourself and you will fulfill all the aspects of the law.

    Salvation is simple;but it is only threw Jesus Christ. " I am the way the truth and the light a none comes to the father but threw me"

    It's the blood he shed that allows us to come close to God a true and perfect sacrifice one that was not found in the law
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Ancient writings do not make truths suspect or less valid because they are ancient. Sir Francis Bacon's discovery of gravity is no less valid today. The truth and existence of God does not diminish with the passage of time.
    Sure but gravity is a highly evident testable phenomenon. Where is the similar evidence for the “truth” of god?

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy MrHarmless's Avatar
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    You gotta remember that people of the religious persuasion generally aren't moved by logic or empirical evidence because the basis of their religion is faith, which... you know... is the antithesis of testing a hypothesis for repeatable results. Fairly certain somewhere in those thousands of books are lines which specifically state not to test/challenge your deity. And the reason is that in the absence of Faith it doesn't exist. You won't find some effervescent all powerful being with all the science and testing in the world.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_McD View Post
    Sure but gravity is a highly evident testable phenomenon. Where is the similar evidence for the “truth” of god?
    Look around you. Is it an accident?

  18. #38
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    Look around yourselves. Is it all an accident?

    Can you explain all of the amazing cures of incurable medical conditions that have occurred? One almost untouched person among a car full of deaths at a traffic collision? Persons booked on a plane who inexplicably decided not to fly and the plane crashed with no survivors? So many more examples....

    Can you explain the human mind, capable of abstract thought and entertaining the concept of God? An accident? Do rabbits aspire to go to the stars?

    Atheists love to say, "Show me your God, and I will believe." God is all around you, but reveals himself only to those who earnestly seek him. Can I show you the wind? No, I can show you the fluttering leaves, the results of the wind. I can show you the creation all about you, but I can not show you the creator. Do you know that the wind exists? Yes, you can feel it, and see the fluttering leaves. I know that God exists. I see his works and creation daily. I have both seen and benefited from answered prayers, but have not seen He who answered. The Bible says, "No man at any time has seen God." This refers to the Father, but the Son was seen and touched in his human form by many. Doubting Thomas touched his wounds. Many saw him ascend into the heavens. Their accounts of these events were recorded in "ancient writings."

    When he returns, "All eyes shall behold him." Everyone will believe in the existence of God at that time, but until then most must search him out. Until that time you must be cognizant of the fluttering leaves, the incurable that are cured, the amazing complexity of Creation. If he isn't knocking on your door, you should knock on his.

    Can you prove to me that God does not exist?

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Look around yourselves. Is it all an accident?

    Can you explain all of the amazing cures of incurable medical conditions that have occurred? One almost untouched person among a car full of deaths at a traffic collision? Persons booked on a plane who inexplicably decided not to fly and the plane crashed with no survivors? So many more examples....

    Can you explain the human mind, capable of abstract thought and entertaining the concept of God? An accident? Do rabbits aspire to go to the stars?

    Atheists love to say, "Show me your God, and I will believe." God is all around you, but reveals himself only to those who earnestly seek him. Can I show you the wind? No, I can show you the fluttering leaves, the results of the wind. I can show you the creation all about you, but I can not show you the creator. Do you know that the wind exists? Yes, you can feel it, and see the fluttering leaves. I know that God exists. I see his works and creation daily. I have both seen and benefited from answered prayers, but have not seen He who answered. The Bible says, "No man at any time has seen God." This refers to the Father, but the Son was seen and touched in his human form by many. Doubting Thomas touched his wounds. Many saw him ascend into the heavens. Their accounts of these events were recorded in "ancient writings."

    When he returns, "All eyes shall behold him." Everyone will believe in the existence of God at that time, but until then most must search him out. Until that time you must be cognizant of the fluttering leaves, the incurable that are cured, the amazing complexity of Creation. If he isn't knocking on your door, you should knock on his.

    Can you prove to me that God does not exist?
    Is this the kind of evidence you would want to be convicted of murder on? That's my whole point, take the "evidence" of out the context of the divine, and it doesn't hold muster. Can you prove that your religious text is actually from god and not from some dude who wrote it in a long dead language, that some other dude translated, and finally a group of dudes voted it was important enough to be included in the collection of texts?

    I am hungry for meat and potatoes evidence not a wispy feel good thought process that is dependent on how much I beleive.

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHarmless View Post
    You gotta remember that people of the religious persuasion generally aren't moved by logic or empirical evidence because the basis of their religion is faith, which... you know... is the antithesis of testing a hypothesis for repeatable results. Fairly certain somewhere in those thousands of books are lines which specifically state not to test/challenge your deity. And the reason is that in the absence of Faith it doesn't exist. You won't find some effervescent all powerful being with all the science and testing in the world.

    I used to think that too, but there are way too many intelligent people that simultaneously analyze and use logic for 99% of things and just abandon it all when it comes to their religion. I am most interested in the mental gymnastics that it takes. Not out of derision, but out of a sincere desire to be able to pull it off.

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