What is the motivation to do or be good outside of fear? I say fear but my thoughts encompass the idea that all actions good or bad are in some way self serving.
When applied to religion, it makes me question virtually all aspects of organized religion. What is the point of faith when it is dependent on the writings on long dead humans?
Just some of my musings.
I thinkI try to do right not from fear but from wanting to please so yes self serving
The secound part I'm not sure what your saying my faith comes from the spirit that resides in me.
when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "
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Those long dead humans were told what to write by the current Living God.
Self serving, yes, but the good deed usually has it's good reward and the bad one has it's reward too, both are sometimes sooner than later. I'd rather have a bunch of good deed rewards catch up to me later and all at once, rather than the bad ones.
Doing good should come out of love...not fear. Spend more time in the New Testament.
BTW, my belief is that God is not perfect, He makes mistakes in spite of trying His best. His love is perfect. We would not have needed Jesus or the New Testament if living by the rules of the Old Testament would have worked....they did not....and never will.
Don Verna
Ideally, for the Christian, motivation to do good should not come from fear of punishment or desire to be rewarded. Motivation should be a genuine desire to do the best thing for other people for their benefit and well being . This is what motivates God. We are to be like God.
However, we are not all at this place in our life. The Bible stresses proper action even if proper motivation is absent. The Bible does mention both punishments and rewards to motivate.
Last edited by Ickisrulz; 01-15-2019 at 11:20 PM.
'What is the motivation to do or be good outside of fear?'- To please the Father. Live a life that pleases the Father through His Son and the Holy Spirit and you will have peace in your heart.
'I say fear but my thoughts encompass the idea that all actions good or bad are in some way self serving.'- Self serving falls in with vanity and greed. We are here to serve the Father through His Son and the Holy Spirit. Remember the words of our Savior as we walk this earth "This is my commandment, that ye love one another even as I have loved you."
'When applied to religion, it makes me question virtually all aspects of organized religion. What is the point of faith when it is dependent on the writings on long dead humans?'- Organized religion to keep the faith alive in the hearts of living mortals, to teach the living the way of our Lord. The point of faith is to follow the word of God, His Son and the Holy Spirit. Remember, long dead humans taught us how to read and write, tie our shoes, use a fork and knife etc., all in service to God.
Fear- In one way or another the New Testament tells us 365 times, one for every day of the year, 'Do not be afraid'.
Fear, perhaps we look at only a partial meaning of the word? For example, I do not wish to die. That would be a self serving statement, or selfish as some would say. I wish to preserve myself, does that mean I'm greedy? Yet, I follow the traffic rules in my country, because I fear the consequences of driving on the wrong side of the road, speeding, losing control, and crashing etc,etc. I wear protective gear when I ride, I also wear protective gear at work. I do this to mitigate damage and possible death to myself. So is the desire for self preservation evil or good? If you answer good, then it would seem obvious that self preservation here, and in the after life would be a noble endeavor. But back to fear! You see I fear the consequences of NOT doing the things that would protect, save me! I don't fear driving, my work, or ridding bicycles and motorcycles, however I do fear the consequences of breaking rules, laws, or just being careless!
Do I fear God? I do not, I know he loves me! I also know he has revealed a plan for my saving, salvation, eternal self preservation, if you will. The plan involves me. I have the power to reject and ignore the plan. There really are only two involved in the outcome of the plan, the planner, rule maker, rewarder, saviour ie God, and me, self, the one in need of preserving, the follower! Do I fear the consequences of ignoring the rules laid out by God? You are darn skippy I do!
Now God didn't leave us out here floundering in the dark, waiting for us to run off the road, crash, burn, and be lost! He gave us a map! It's full of examples, rules of the road, and rite paths,designed to bring us to a destination.
Can you pour from an empty cup? Can you help others while you have neglected self? I could go on and on, but I just don't get where Christians allow themselves to be bullied about saving self, caring for self, and putting self first etc! As in so many things spiritual, it's the motivation that's evil, not the act, and such it is with fear, and self preservation!
I just struggle with the “why” folks believe. Just doesn’t seem to be a rational thing. If I told you to “have faith” that my investment opportunity would double your money in a week, you’d likely be skeptical. But a book tells you a man defied all natural laws, and you believe.
To be clear I am not trying to be inflammatory in my language, it just seems odd to me. And it’s not like I think I have a better explanation or world view, I just can’t seem to get over the obvious disconnect that otherwise rational thinkers abandon reason when it comes to religion. To the point where folks argue over which interpretation of a book is correct and will come to blows if you disagree.
If you could get everyone to agree which version of god is the real one, you wouldn't have to ask this. It's a result of the idiosyncrasies of sixteen hundred years of words of mouth and inter-language translations, coupled with your brand of religious upbringing.
It wasent a book that led me to faith,it wasent a man preaching His word.it was a draw in me that set me looking for the truth. that draw led me to faith
when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "
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So you believe god exists and most religion is a derivative of miscommunication over the years. That’s actually fairly reasonable.
So, it sounds like you do not believe in God.Originally Posted by T_McD
Is that true?
If so, I do not understand how anyone can look around at the diversity of life on earth including animals, insects, plants, etc., each with their own complexity. and not be awed by all of it.
To think that all of this just happened by itself is incomprehensible to me.
How do you see it?
I've never understood how one could believe in God, believe He created the heavens and earth, all life as we know it ,set in place the seasons, the stars , the moon, but He is unable to keep his word true for a few thousand years?
when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "
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I don’t follow?...
It hard for me to understand how a God so great can do all these things but He can't keep The message He gave us true? He is able to keep the moon in rotation with the earth causing the rise and fall of the oceans but He can't stop man from distorting his message
when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "
<(*)(()><
Rizzo, I do believe in some higher power as it seems as likely as winning the cosmic lottery. It does seem to me that more than random chance was involved.
Where I start to doubt is when one religion is supposed to be “the” one. If actual evidence existed to support ones definition of “god” I could understand, but absent that.... how can you possibly debate Scripture when there is no evidence it’s legit in the first place
Rl69, I see what your saying. I also struggle with all the amazing displays of godly powers and miracles claimed by the Bible that are conveniently absent in today’s world.
I understand. I have heard it preached that we live in a different age,and that those kinds of miracles ended with Paul's death. I'm not going to argue that one way or the other I haven't been shown that in scripture.
I believe miracals still take place but are explained away. Mostly I believe that we don't see more miracles becauseof our lack of faith and understanding! We follow the teaching of men and rely on our understanding. We do not follow the spirit we are scared to lean compleatly on him to sustain us.
There is scripture to back this up but before we can understand scripture we have to know God.
Do you fill that pull / call for something greater? Are you willing follow
Him ? He will show himself to you if you are ready
when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "
<(*)(()><
Well, as a matter of fact, it was a book that brought me to believe. However it, is unlike any other book in the earth. Authored by 35-40 different writers over a span of thousands of years, it tells a dual story, a story of God and man. To a believer, it contains the fall of man, and the path of reconciliation back to God, the words of the"I AM", to the nonbeliever is nothing more than a collection of stories. I believe there is ONLY ON ONE GOD, only one way to get to him, and only one book that tells the way to be saved. A book we know as The Bible.
rl69 keeps talking about a pull, what's he talking about? I'll attemp to answer my own question.
Since God made all human kind, I believe he put this (call it what you will) pull, search for the truth, a reason, an answer, a need to find and worship him. All mankind have this, and worship something, places, things, times, power, even themselves! So I think mankind is going to seek God, but wether he follows the true God is ultimately up to the individual (back to that fear/ self preservation). I could go on, but I'll say I've read the books of other religions, I searched, and I found the Bible the most convincing and I believe it to be the way, after all, I was seeking something I didn't even know where to find at the time. You may, and are free to come to a different conclusion.
Love for all!
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I have similar views about certain religions claiming to being the "one" (true religion).
If we call the "higher power" the Creator, then I can see where many religions are praying to, worshiping, etc. to the same Entity.
God (Creator) is not just for the Bible believers but for everyone.
Man has developed different views, rules, rituals, etc. and incorporated them into the various belief systems we have today.
Regarding there is no evidence that Scripture is legit, the Bible is a history book of sorts that documents happenings in the past. These happenings were witnessed by people who verbally passed on the happenings or documented them.
Some amazing things were witnessed back then.
The documentation of those events could be considered evidence, but for some "seeing is believing".
I do not follow any organized religion for various reasons. I have experienced this "pull" that has been mentioned. I feel it in my heart and intuitively know it is God (Creator) calling me back home.
This "pull" has changed my life and I am a better person now because of it.
I think having doubts is a normal phase we all go through. I certainly did.
It's a good start and hopefully you will find peace and understanding on your path.
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