What Happened?

[splotch]

Hi - I am trying to develop some smokeless loads for brass 20 gauge shells. I first loaded some plastic low base shells (5 of them) with 14.5 g Unique, felt wads and 3/4 oz of 7.5 shot. They shot just fine a bit on the light side. So I thought that would be a good starting point for the brass shells. So I made up the exact same load except I used slightly bigger wads because the brass shells are bigger. Both plastic and brass were sealed with glue. So I loaded up 5 rounds - all barely went pop not even clearing the wads from the barrel. Any ideas what went wrong? - thanks

[Traffer]

Hi - I am trying to develop some smokeless loads for brass 20 gauge shells. I first loaded some plastic low base shells (5 of them) with 14.5 g Unique, felt wads and 3/4 oz of 7.5 shot. They shot just fine a bit on the light side. So I thought that would be a good starting point for the brass shells. So I made up the exact same load except I used slightly bigger wads because the brass shells are bigger. Both plastic and brass were sealed with glue. So I loaded up 5 rounds - all barely went pop not even clearing the wads from the barrel. Any ideas what went wrong? - thanks

Did the powder burn?

[rancher1913]

shotgun reloading is not like regular cartridge reloading, any change in components can have a huge impact on the out come, thats why all the recipes state the hull to use as well as all the individual components. you got lucky that it did not go the other way and blow your gun apart.

[Ginsing]

Along with the felt wads did you have a good tight fitting card wad on top of the powder?

[dsh1106]

The plastic shells worked because in the internal volume was smaller than the brass shells is my guess ????

[Cap'n Morgan]

Too little resistance without a crimp. The primer pushed the payload down the barrel before the powder had time to ignite properly. Try 7/8 ounce of shot instead.

In my experience fast powders like Red Dot or similar are the best suited powders for light loads (next to black powder) but pressure will spike really fast and you probably won't find any official loading recopies for twenty gauge.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

What Cap'n Morgan said. The plastic shell crimp offered enough resistance for the powder to ignite. The brass hull did not. Faster powder, heavier payload. BPI has a manual for brass shotshells.

[Ginsing]

He glued the plastic hull as well as the brass one. He needs a proper gas seal for both loads as well as faster powder or heavier payload.
I have read people using overshot card with glue or silicone. Make sure everything is nice and tightly packed together.

[TNsailorman]

It does sound like you wad is not sealing well enough and if the load is not retarded(slowed down) enough, it might be turning into a "squib" load. Do you have some slightly oversized wads that would seal the bore tighter? Or put a tight crimp on the case mouth. I have seen both take care of problems before.

[splotch]

Some of the powder burned but not all - I did notice that the load was not very tall and the wads not very tight- I just put in two shot (.5 inch wads) and it moved the shot farther up the shell where the second wad was considerably tighter. I am guessing that the shell is tapered inside. Do you think that two wads will cause a problem the added mass is a lot less than moving from 3/4 oz shot to 7/8 oz of shot - what do you guys think

[GhostHawk]

Agree with Capn Morgan, and Rattlesnake.

If your reloader has a spring to compress powder/wad, USE IT.

Whatever you are doing to seal that brass hull you need something that works better, has more resistance.

And I agree with Capn Morgan that you probably want a fast powder like Red Dot.

Real easy with brass hulls for the primer to get the whole stack moving. So you have too much space, poor powder burn, ie squibs, or inconsistent loads.

Don't give up, keep reading, testing. If you figure it out report back here.

This problem is IMO the one of the reasons finding published smokeless data for brass hulls in shotguns is like hunting Unicorns. I can't say for sure you'll never see one. After all the boys down at the bar might hear of your hunt and rig a dummy/decoy for you some night. But can you trust it?

I have put my brass hull reloading on the back shelf. Have hulls, proper sized wads, etc.
Just don't have the need at this point. But if that need should change, you can bet I'd start playing with it again.

[dverna]

Try and find a load recipe for your components. Shotguns are not very forgiving, I would not use suggestions from the internet or this forum unless I could verify a load from a reputable source.

Also, rethink the use of brass casings. With good 20 ga hulls easily and cheaply available, I do not see what advantages they offer. The plastic hull wirh a proper wad will give consistent results and make reloading simpler and faster.

[GBertolet]

Brass shotgun shells are intended for black powder, which explodes, rather than burns progressively. I had dismal results loading 410 brass shells with smokeless.There is not enough resistance in the crimp to get the powder burning efficiently, which caused the bloopers. Also, if you use plastic wads, they don't seal properly, as brass shells are about 1 gauge larger internally. You need to buy the special oversized cardboard of fiber wads, to even begin to get it to work with smokeless. It's possible to get smokeless to work in brass cases, but it takes a lot of work.

[Markopolo]

Also, another thing you should try is Hot Glue to seal the over shot card. Elmer’s and such tend to shrink and you end up with a stiff disk of glue that does not stick to the inside of the shell. I use lots of brass shells, and they work well, but there is a learning curve. I also use the proper wads to go with the shell. I mostly use the old Alcan wads designed for the brass shells. They are very snug inside the case and require some pressure to get them in place. Unfortunately, I don’t do 20g, only 410 and 12g. Don’t give up though. Work at it. It can be done, and was done well for many many years by alcan and Winchester. Everything has its recipe for success.. part of the fun of reloading.
Marko

[longbow]

Another vote for gas leakage here. it is amazing how much gas leaks by nitro card and hard wads. The plastic gas seal makes a huge difference.

Not sure ho wit all works in brass hulls in that regard but most seem to use one gauge up for wads. Plastic gas seals don;t work that way. maybe put a couple of 16 ga. nitro card wads on top of a 20 ga. plastic gas seal. However, as mentioned, you should be using a load based on pressure tested info to be safe. If you are using BP or a sub I doubt you can get enough in a hull to be a problem but with smokeless powder it is easy to get into trouble with shotgun reloading!

play but play safe!

Longbow

[gpidaho]

My brass hull loading with smokeless powder has been 410 gauge only. This was done using 444 Marlin brass and standard plastic wads. If anything, they were a bit hotter than the same charge in a plastic hull I used two overshot cards (tight) and glued in place with carpenters wood glue. I found some of the wads and one petal had been sheared off and there were shot peen marks all over the wad. the shot patterned well and one wad stuck in the target board. (OSB) I might have been lucky these were fired from my 444 rifle barrel. Gp

[jimb16]

To reload brass 20 gauge shells you need 18 gauge wads. Otherwise the wads are too loose and you get either blow y or failure to ignite. I believe they are available from Circle Fly wads.