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Thread: 2nd time scope has come loose on my ruger american 450 bushmaster...need help!

  1. #41
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhawk0 View Post
    That's an interesting comment. It could be that with such a high recoil it does't do well shooting from a "solid" sled. If shot from the shoulder only your body takes up some of that recoil...meaning it isn't all transferred into the scope/mounts...like on a sled.

    Did you ever shoot the original setup (before sending it back) from the bench without the sled? Did you notice the same scope shift?

    redhawk

    No I didn’t but found the base screw loose so would have moved reguardless.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master


    tomme boy's Avatar
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    Double sided tape is going to dent your scope tube. Use glue, silicone, liquid electrical tape. Or get a set of 3 screw tactical rings and stop messing around with all of this ** of lapping and rosin and glue. The 3 screw rings came out because of this exact issue.

  3. #43
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    The big thing that’s sticks in my mind is the Ruger tech/smith told me the 450 bushmaster Ruger American is not made for a target rifle to go out and shoot but just as a hunting rifle? I would assume he meant they weren’t designed well enough to hold together like the issues I’m having where it’s rattling a part. Guess they need to go back to the drawing board to design a stouter platform for this caliber.
    Wow, I can't imagine shooting a 450 for pleasure. Plus one on the recommendation on the shotgun scope.

  4. #44
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    "Or get a set of 3 screw tactical rings and stop messing around with all of this ** of lapping and rosin and glue."

    Sage advise. If you're going to dance then pay the band and do the right dance to the tune. I also use Weaver tip off rings on my heavy recoilers which are hell for stout and really secure the scope w/o tape, rosin or glue. I also use small lighter weight scopes such as the lower power 1-4Xs, 1.45-5Xs and fixed of 1.5X, 2X, and 2.5X. Less weight = less inertia in the scope.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    What Larry said!

    I've seen a couple of European two-lbs monster scopes come loose, one of them wrecking the expensive German "Schwenkmontagen" rings on a 308 Remington Mohawk. When recoil gets tough, I'll take a low-riding, looong eye relief 1" straight tube scope any day...
    Cap'n Morgan

  6. #46
    Boolit Master

    rockrat's Avatar
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    Double sided golf club grip tape.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Triplebeards,

    "The factory picatinny rail is held on by four screws. The one closest to the bolt was finger loose!"

    Here is something to try. I assume the screws, holding the Picatinny rail to the receiver, are 6-48 screws? Typically, these sized screws are torqued to be close to "yield point" of steel, i.e. close to the end of the elastic limit where a screw can stretch slightly under load BUT then return to its original length and maintain its original tightness. When a receiver bends/flexes, during recoil, the stress in a 6-48 screw can increase and cause yielding and the screw will NOT return to its original length but will be stretched/longer/loose. Your 6-48 screws may have been heat-treated poorly and could be softer/lower strength then they should be. Suggestion. Replace all your base mounting 6-48 screws with higher quality ones and see if that helps to stop the screw yielding/stretching. This is inexpensive to try. If the screw loosening persists, I'd recommend upgrading to 8-40 screws and a steel Picatinny rail. The 8-40 screws would give the same grip but would not be as close to the steel's elastic limit yield point. Then during recoil, the 8-40 screw would stretch elastically and then return to its original length to maintain the original grip that was torqued in initially. Likewise, the steel Picatinny rail would significantly stiffen the receiver so that it would not deflect as much.

    Best regards,

    CJR
    Last edited by CJR; 01-28-2019 at 01:14 PM. Reason: typo

  8. #48
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Gun came back today with a new trigger group installed. Horrible travel. I worked all of it out and have it braking at 18 oz again like the first one did. Might have to adjust it a little heavier. The rep said he removed the factory weaver rail, inspected, reinstalled, and torqued it down. He said the gun shot a five shot group all in one big hole at fifty yards. Ruger also sent the updated picantinny rail with it. I removed the weaver rail to get started on bedding the updated picantinny rail and found rear screw was loose again! I don't know if he was messing with me or if I came loose after only five shots at the factory! I acraglas bedded the updated picantinny rail in place and blue loct tighter the screws before installing them into the base. I'm sure some the acraglass probably oozed into the screw holes or at least around the threads so that thing will not be coming loose again. I'm letting it sit up over night and will spray 3M adhesive on the inside of which ever scope ring set I decide to use in the morning.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-30-2019 at 01:58 AM.

  9. #49
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    cwlongshot's Avatar
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    FYI, Your not doing yourself any justice unless you allow a honest time for the loc tite and acra glass to cure.



    Good luck

    CW
    NRA Life member • NRA Certified Pistol & Shotgun Instructor • NRA Certified Rifle Coach • Certified Range Officer • Reloading Instructor
    REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    Liquid electrical tape. A tiny dab inside the front and rear ring will solve your problem. 3M is best but expensive. Never had a scope move. Secret of Ross Seyfried.

    762
    Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    My amendment can beat up your amendment.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Thanks for your help guys. Won't be shooting it anytime in the next couple days anyways since its 50 below with windchill today. Acraglass and loct tite will be sitting for a good week Like I do bedding my rifle with the stuff to set up. I had it squish out on all sizes of the base when i tightened down the rail so I know I had complete coverage. I cleaned off the excess glass that squished out with bore scrubber and peroxide and Q tips. I don't have the extra funds right now for scope rings so I will have to make due with one of the sets I have and apply 3M 77 adhesive to the inside of the rings. I did place an add in helping hands trying to see if anyone had one extra medium warne maximum or low leupold PWR ring so I could mount a third ring on it for extra strength. Two will have to do for now with 2 screw rings. I'm pretty sure after the adhesive and bedding it will stay put.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-30-2019 at 12:29 PM.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Masked my rings so when I sprayed the only thing that was getting adhesive on it was the inside of the rings. I scuffed the inside with 600 grit lightly, cleaned the rings, screw holes, and screws with bore scrubber and rubbing alcohol before starting. I sprayed a very light coat of 3M 77 inside the rings and let it dry for a good 10/15 minutes before assembly. I blue loct tited all the screws. I also cleaned off the scope mating surface with rubbing alcohol. I made sure to slide the rings ALL the way forward in the picantinny rail slots before tightening the bases. I was shocked that I could still move the optic to adjust it with a lot less force than I thought it would take. Once I started tightening that optic wasn't moving being the adhesive already was grabbing really good. I decided the warne rings were a lot more heavy duty than my leupold PRW rings so they went on. Got it adjusted to my eye and torqued to 25 inch pounds per warne spec. I wipe my rump harder harder than 25 inch pounds so I slowly raised the torque to 35 in pounds and will test it in a week after giving the glass and glue time to set.

    Taped up and sprayed...



    10 min after tape removed..




    Torqued and ready to put aside for a week to set up.....




    I did notice the bolt release pin likes to fall out all by itself as well. Fell out twice when I had the action out of the stock mounting the rail. It just never quits.

    The more I google on the net the more I find the loosening of the scope rail screws is a common problem with the ruger American 450 bushmaster. It seems they keep coming loose very quickly even after re torquing. I called Randy's gunshop in Michigan and who ever I talked to was well aware of it. After so many came back loose they now bed and lock tite all the rails on their RAR 450BM's before they leave their shop.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 02-01-2019 at 01:16 PM.

  13. #53
    Boolit Mold BS2's Avatar
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    This year getting ready for deer season, giving the guns a last check. My son found the scope on his American 450 was loose. I will have to get an update.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Bolt release lever kit and new action screws on the way. Ruger took care of me as usual.

  15. #55
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    lefty o's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    Bolt release lever kit and new action screws on the way. Ruger took care of me as usual.
    wonder how many times they have to take care of one item.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    wonder how many times they have to take care of one item.
    Good question. When I bought it I sent I back the next day for bluing issues and a scratched and banged up scope rail. There were some large spots where the bluing was either scratched off or just too thin of an application. I swear I can rub the cheap bluing process off on the Americans if I rub hard enough with my finger. The barrel was reblued...probably replaced because it was quicker on their end and a new picantinny rail installed and sent bad in a week. I didn't have my reading glasses with at time of delivery to inspect the rifle or I would have never bought it and had them order in another. A replacement magazine was sent because I had one dropping out and another one after the catch broke on the second. A replacement trigger now since the holes hogged out, an updated picantinny rail and screws, and now action screws, a bolt lever release kit and catch pin. I think that covers it...and I'm sure I'm one of many who have had the same parts replaced. The gun keeps falling apart and Ruger keeps taking care of me. It's just a pain to have to send it back and forth. I've been hoping Ruger would have let me trade up into a different platform like the go wild or scout model with all the issues its had. After the new parts are in I'll take it out next week and run about 40 rounds through it and see if Anything rattles loose again.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 02-01-2019 at 02:14 PM.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
    lefty o's Avatar
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    my own take, they arent taking care of you, they have failed you as a customer. they have seen it more than once, by the second time they had the rifle back, they should have gone over it with a fine toothed comb.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    my own take, they arent taking care of you, they have failed you as a customer. they have seen it more than once, by the second time they had the rifle back, they should have gone over it with a fine toothed comb.
    Agreed,
    It's my third Ruger that's been back for service with them. I like my Rugers but the ruger service techs won't look for and or address anything that is not noted by the customer sad to say. You have to almost be a backyard gunsmith when you buy one now a days sad to say.

    They would have never looked over the rail...and left it loose for me afterwards, if I didn't ask them to inspect it and I would have had optics keep comming loose if I didn't check it and then bed the rail and lock tite the screws. I'm sure they still would be scratching their heads if I sent it back a third time for slipping optics and blame it on what ever brand rings I bought.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Fresh batch of tumble coated clear and blue PC 300 grain FN loaded with 35.5 grains of H110 ready to go for the test.





    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 02-02-2019 at 01:41 AM.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Well, I was getting ready to clean my barrel and figured I'd cycle a few of my rounds and jinxed myself. I believe Ruger replaced my magazine because on the last round...or if I only have one round in the magazine it jams now. I shortened the AOL to 2.035". Still jammed. I'm done with the Lee 300 FN in my bushmaster. All the magic that made them feed apparently has worn off. It's the only GC .452 mold I own so back to the drawing board.

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