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Thread: 2nd time scope has come loose on my ruger american 450 bushmaster...need help!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    2nd time scope has come loose on my ruger american 450 bushmaster...need help!

    I have 2 RUM's that have never came loose but my 450BM is being a pain.I thought it was the warne rings so I bought leupolds and had a smith professionaly install them with rosin. The optic shifted back wards after about 12 rounds. I checked my action screws and scope mount and rings. All seemed extremely tight. Kept shooting and it moved some more. I used tge same load today. 300 grain lee with the average muzzel velocity around 2, 075fps. So I'm not over killing my rifle as far as I'm concerned. So, rosin didn't work...what's my next step? Do I dare glue my optic to my rings? I'm getting overly frustrated abd running out of ideas.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    Maybe try a thin rubber sheet between the rings and scope? You could glue the rubber onto the rings but even that may not be necessary. It seems really strange the scope would move with two different sets of rings!
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  3. #3
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    Try some rubber cement. I have used it before with good results.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

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    This isn't all that unusual with the AR series rifle, the double recoil bump back and then the forward creates a different harmonics pattern to deal with. The rifle recoils when fired the rifle bumps again when the bolt carrier hits the stop then again when it locks up going forward. The warne rings should have been more than adequate for this. Lapping rings to a true engagement of 1005 on the scope may improve gripping. Some use rosin a light coat on cleaned degreased rings to aid grip. I have heard of blue locktite used also.
    Do the rings appear to have been lapped into alignment? If not I would pick up foot of 1" brass round stock and some fine 320 grit lapping compound and lap the rings in to alignment when mounted on the rail. This usually goes pretty quick by hand and gives good gripping surfaces. Work rod in a sliding radial motion so lines overlap. Then a light coat of rosin and tighten it up.

    If you have access to the dry powder lapping compounds 400-600 grit will provide excellent grip but may mar scope finish aligning and or if it slips again. The anodizing used on rings can be hard (60-70 rc) and slippery. roughing it up a little with lapping ir if needed for alignment removing it may help.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post

    Lapping rings to a true engagement of 1005 on the scope may improve gripping.

    Some use rosin a light coat on cleaned degreased rings to aid grip.

    +1 - TCR = "True", "clean" & rosin.


    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Lap it, lock-tight it, and add a third ring or even a fourth if room permits.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    This isn't all that unusual with the AR series rifle, the double recoil bump back and then the forward creates a different harmonics pattern to deal with. The rifle recoils when fired the rifle bumps again when the bolt carrier hits the stop then again when it locks up going forward. The warne rings should have been more than adequate for this. Lapping rings to a true engagement of 1005 on the scope may improve gripping. Some use rosin a light coat on cleaned degreased rings to aid grip. I have heard of blue locktite used also.
    Do the rings appear to have been lapped into alignment? If not I would pick up foot of 1" brass round stock and some fine 320 grit lapping compound and lap the rings in to alignment when mounted on the rail. This usually goes pretty quick by hand and gives good gripping surfaces. Work rod in a sliding radial motion so lines overlap. Then a light coat of rosin and tighten it up.

    If you have access to the dry powder lapping compounds 400-600 grit will provide excellent grip but may mar scope finish aligning and or if it slips again. The anodizing used on rings can be hard (60-70 rc) and slippery. roughing it up a little with lapping ir if needed for alignment removing it may help.

    It’s not an AR...it’s a Ruger American as stated in my first post. If your not aware of what that is, it’s a bolt action rifle. Not trying to be a smart Alec, just getting frustrated.

    I did lap the rings the first time around and also used rosin...and blue lock tite on the screws but not on the rings itself...all of which didn’t help. I have over 70 firearms and have optics on just about all of which I mounted myself. All the rings have been lapped, tourqued, and lock tighten. This isn’t my first rodeo. There is something more going on with this stubborn rifle than meets the eye. Like I’ve said I have mounted rings and optics on my 300 and 375 RUMs that stay put and are rock solid. I’m hoping someone has crossed this bridge with an extremely stubborn recoiling rifle and has thought outside the box to keep it from slipping. All the proper measures that work do not on this rifle. Like I said I even had a gunsmith mount the second optic with Leupold rings. I don’t blame the smith or myself the first time around. Everything was done bythe book the first two times around and it still comes loose. I might have to try rubber cement or painting the inside of my rings with blue lock tite if no other creative ideas surface. I’d love to lock tite it in place.lol I just don’t want to wreck my optics and rings in the process.

    I even cleaned off my optic tube,screws and screw holes with a Q tip and rubbing alcoholic/bore scrub to remove any oils. This is the 2nd optic as well. When It came loose the first time the front bell hit the scope ring and wrecked it. I’m using a Nikon pro staff 5. It always feels like to me that there is a smother,slick finish on them than my Leupold optics so I make sure to wipe the tube down with rubbing alcohol before mounting. I think there is just too much recoil and I’m shooting it in my Caldwell lead sled so it coming to an abrupt hault. I shoot my RUMs in the sled and they obviously recoil more and the scopes don’t slide loose.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-14-2019 at 05:13 PM.

  8. #8
    ive had gunsmiths tell me to use elmers rubber cement, easy to clean up if you ever pull the scope off.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Just took it apart. The factory picatinny rail is held on by four screws. The one closest to the bolt was finger loose! They are getting lock tited as we speak. I called al’s gun shop in Michigan who came up with this chambering in the Ruger American and said the RAR in 450BM are notorious for that screw coming loose and having the issues I’ve had. Hard to believe when the other three were rock solid tight.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    I have used green penetrating loctite on 22 groved recievers that wouldnt stay put. Used to build commercial bandsaws and we used it extensively on head and band track adjustment bolts after they were dialed in. Will crawl between tightened surfaces and bond, but allows easy removal if needed.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I'm surprised that nobody can provide us with the adhesive they use on packaging, to put on scope rings. That stuff works even on plastic without dissolving anything. I tried the blue locktite on the rings but it doesn't work on hard anodized.
    Whatever!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Ateam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcren View Post
    I have used green penetrating loctite on 22 groved recievers that wouldnt stay put. Used to build commercial bandsaws and we used it extensively on head and band track adjustment bolts after they were dialed in. Will crawl between tightened surfaces and bond, but allows easy removal if needed.
    I have used this stuff to sleeve barrels, put on sights, etc. Be careful the removal of the part may require a rubber mallet and or heat, its serious ****.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    You might check the recoil lugs bedding to the stock a loose fit here can also affect harmonic and screws loosening.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I had a Nikon 4x that slipped in Redfield rings on a .450 Marlin. When I switched to a K4 Weaver it never happened again. Perhaps steel on steel made the difference. The Nikon 4x went on an AR15 in cheap lined alloy rings and is problem free there.
    Ross Seyfried recommended 3M Electrical Sealant( known as liquid tape) to prevent scope-in ring slippage. I used it on a .300 Wby and an 8mm Rem mag. and it worked. A little dab will do you and be careful with the sticky, messy stuff.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Just put it all back together and never noticed that the whole trigger assembly rattles loosely like a baby rattle when the bolt Is out if it. When the bolt is back in place, cycled, and cocked it’s pretty tight. I called Ruger and they sent me an RMA and a call tag to get back for inspection. I would assume it shouldn’t be loose. It’s like the holes are hogged out where the pins go through the trigger assembly that hold it in place.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    The one thing I noticed was no one mentioned or asked if the insides of the rings were concentric? I have seen gunsmiths who never check that especially if they are the one piece or block type as they figure factory machining will be perfect? If not done already I would use the two "points" in the Weaver scope mount kit to make sure the bored holes line up? The other possibility is to use an "anti recoil ring" like I have on a couple of my long range black powder rifles.
    John

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Heres what it looked like under the mount. The rear is where the screw was finger loose. I would assume it vibrated my trigger assembly and hogged out the holes as well. It’s hard to believe it can do this with the other three screws tight as tight. As much as I hate to do it I’m going to remove the scope and rings off it and it back to Ruger. I would assume they will replace the trigger assembly. I want them to measure the action width as well to make sure it didn’t swell or widen from shooting. I’m sure it didn’t but with my luck you never know. I will ask them the check the V lugs in the bedding as well to make sure are snug.

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-15-2019 at 05:58 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    It’s on its way back...I got a kick out it when I dropped it off at the carrier. The only question they asked is if my package had alcohol in it.lol

    I might put a dab of acraglass on the bottom of the base to literally weld it in place to the top of my action when it comes back.

    I found a few shooters on line that used GE silicone 2 on their scope rings with good success. They applied it and tightened the rings down and wiped off the excess. I would assume silicone can be removed from the rings and scope pretty easy if needing to remove the optic. It’s at least worth a try for $3.50 since Rosin isn’t working.

    Here’s the link I read.

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...t-to-do.42157/


    I just remembered I have some 3M super 77 spray adhesive laying around I bet would work great as well. I used it to attach some loose seadoo decals. I would have to switch back to my Leupold PRW mounts being my Warne side mount rings are never going to let me adjust the scope back and forth once the halves are together around the optic.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-15-2019 at 11:35 PM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    I have used double face tape inside scope rings . The old Weaver mount with 2 screws on it was famous for twisting resulting in the cross hair being out

    of square . The tape usually did the job . It is easy to remove when no longer needed .

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I've used the old style electrical friction tape the one with the rough texture. One of my wifes uncles loved the stuff as he did classic cars and that was the style of tape they used way back when. I once did 4 Browning semi auto rifles that a friends boss had bought as gifts for valued customers. Probably 5k or more and all with Leupold scopes. two were 339 win mags and don't remember what the other two were. Just one complete wrap and after alignment and using a bore sighter. He had the fun of shooting to complete sighting in. You'd think after dropping 5K on rifles and scopes the gunsmith working out of that store would have been happy to do it for free. Nope,$50 apeice to mount and bore sight. Frank

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