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Thread: 40-65 WCF in a mod 67 RB. ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    40-65 WCF in a mod 67 RB. ?

    This is a Swedish 67 12.7x44 that I am relineing to 40-65 WCF. Iím not exactly sure what pressure levels this gun could take but have no intention of coming close.
    Rifle will be used for close range deer hunting with 100 yds being a very rare occurrence. The liner, dies and brass should be here next week sometime.
    I plan on getting a mold from Accurate. Iím looking at a double cavity that cast 2 different boolits. Both will be plain base. One is the 41-273 F and the other is a boolit designed more for the 41 mag. This would be used for general plinking.

    While I may shoot some black most will be loaded with smokeless using bottom end loads. Powders will be unique, 4759, 5744 and R7
    Looking for velocityís on the 273 gr in the 1200 to 1400 fps range.

    Thoughts, suggestions, concerns etc?
    Thanks, Woody
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  2. #2
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I have a Rolling Block Sporting action from the same era in .40-65 also. I rebarreled it with a Green Mountain .40 caliber blank, and I shoot mostly 300 and 350 gr. RCBS CSA cast bullets. The RCBS CSA molds are a very good choice, and my gun will hit pretty consistently on the 650 yd. dinger with these bullets.
    My loads are all in the 1300-1350 fps range with smokeless. I've pushed it further at around 1400 fps with heavier Lyman Snover 410 gr. bullets, but didn't see any increase in accuracy at longer distances, so dropped back to the lighter bullets and slower velocity.
    I use 18.0-18.5 grs. of 4198 with the 300 CSA bullet. Mild and accurate!

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have an Argentine that was converted years ago and was used as a match rifle for years. It will stand any load the loading manuals suggest for a 40-65. This one is shot with a 330 grain bullet pushed at 1400 fps or so. The Swede is a good steel action and will stand the gaff.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    The Swedish actions may well be stronger than original Remington BP actions! They have a great reputation for being strong. And the Swedes loved their Rolling Block rifles! Even after being replaced by the '96 Mauser bolt action, the Swede Rollers remained in government service for a long time!

  5. #5
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    40-65 Swede from an 89, Douglas barrel. I shot smokeless in it when it was an 8MM but it is all BP now, just a fun gun to shoot. It has taken several deer with my home made BP. My Shiloh in 40-50 has replaced it the last 2 seasons though.

    Bob
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    All that info makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Thanks guys.
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I shoot a Browning 1885 BPCR model with a 312 grain gas checked bullet. My groove dia is .408 and the bullets are .409 to .410. The mold was designed for a .405 Win but was undersize so it worked well in the Browning. I use 25 grains of SR4759 for groups near 1" with the veneir tang sight.
    EDG

  8. #8
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    40-65 Swede from an 89, Douglas barrel. I shot smokeless in it when it was an 8MM but it is all BP now, just a fun gun to shoot. It has taken several deer with my home made BP. My Shiloh in 40-50 has replaced it the last 2 seasons though.

    Bob
    Is your Shiloh .40-50 the Sharps Straight, or Bottleneck? I have no experience with the Bottleneck, but the .40-50SS is a wonderful cartridge! My current Roller build is a .40-50SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    Is your Shiloh .40-50 the Sharps Straight, or Bottleneck? I have no experience with the Bottleneck, but the .40-50SS is a wonderful cartridge! My current Roller build is a .40-50SS.
    40-50 straight and I do like it very much. Ran into unforeseen problems forming brass but finally figured it out.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Who has dies for the 40-50 strait? Just got done with a Phoenix in that chamber.

  11. #11
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    GOPHER SLAYER's Avatar
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    My 40-65 Roller. I do love it.
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    A GUN THAT'S COCKED AND UNLOADED AIN'T GOOD FOR NUTHIN'........... ROOSTER COGBURN

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post
    Who has dies for the 40-50 strait? Just got done with a Phoenix in that chamber.
    John, I don't think anybody makes a standard version at a reasonable price. CH does offer them but custom order.
    What I had to do was fire form the cases and cut them to length, then neck ream them with a Forster .410 reamer.
    For normal use I neck size with a 40-65 die, expand and taper crimp. I have have also just flared the case mouth thumb seated the boolit and taper crimped to take out the flare and apply slight resistance. The first method seems to work best in my rifle.
    I did get an RCBS 40-70SS die set for when I might need to completely size the case because of it getting too tight near the bottom of the case. This actually works pretty good even though you wouldn't think it would since both are a straight tapered cases.
    BTW I use 30-40 Krag cases. I tried a couple 303 Brit cases but the rims are a little smaller and the extraction seems better with the Krag cases.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Boz, how do you neck size the little 1.6" long .40-50SS case using a .40-65 die? Mine sure wont go low enough to do so for my cases?
    I use a Lyman M die in the correct diameter to inside neck size. I use a larger M die to bell the neck prior to bullet seating. I use .303 British cases, and use the sizing die from the .303 British to bump the OD on mine to remove the bell after seating bullets. I have also used my .40-70SS die set to aid in making the original case, but once formed I don't use it much because it's too long.

  14. #14
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    The 40-50 case is 1.875 but I chucked the 40-65 neck size die up in the lathe and faced it off up to the threads (about a 1/4") which got it close enough to work. I can still raise it up high enough to work on the 40-65. But I also have a 310 die set which is more flexible which also works. I did the experimenting with it. I just find a bench mounted press more convenient.
    How do you use the 303 size die for a taper crimp? I would think that the boolit would hit the neck area before it was deep enough to remove the bell. I have at least an inch of boolit above the case mouth on my rounds.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob. My mistake on the length, and of course 1.8" is correct.
    I use the .303 die to simply remove the bell, and I bought an old die and simply did what you did on the .40-65, except I cut the top off at the bottom of the shoulder. But I don't shoot any bullets long enough to get 1" of bullet above the case mouth. If mine had that much showing I'd be breech seating to get them that far out.
    I use the RCBS CSA 300 and 350 bullets. Both work extremely well in my original Rolling Block with it's slower twist rate.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    Thanks Bob. My mistake on the length, and of course 1.8" is correct.
    I use the .303 die to simply remove the bell, and I bought an old die and simply did what you did on the .40-65, except I cut the top off at the bottom of the shoulder. But I don't shoot any bullets long enough to get 1" of bullet above the case mouth. If mine had that much showing I'd be breech seating to get them that far out.
    I use the RCBS CSA 300 and 350 bullets. Both work extremely well in my original Rolling Block with it's slower twist rate.
    I'm using a BACO Creedmore mold and the driving bands are reduced so I can run with just .250 in the case. I have the RCBS 350gr mold as well but I couldn't neck ream deep enough to get all of the drive bands into the 40-50 case, not to mention reducing the powder capacity. IIRC the 350 goes almost .650 in the case.
    I got my 1st 40-65 in 91, a C-Sharps highwall with a Douglas 18 twist barrel. 40-65 stuff was hard to come by back then but it shot the 350 quite well and that was about the only 40 cal boolit available back then. I never could get the 18 twist barrel to shoot 400s so re-barreled to a Badger 16 twist barrel. The old barrel went on the Roller posted earlier which became my deer rifle till I got this Shiloh 40-50SS.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I shoot smokeless powder, and what is lacking in a .40-50SS with BP is what makes the same cartridge shine with smokeless. The small case capacity is ideal for smokeless powders, and much better than larger cases with smokeless. The .40-50SS I shoot does extremely well with 2400, and both the 300 and 350 RCBS CSA bullets.
    I'm loading mine to around 1300 fps with either bullet, and they do great. Too bad the cartridge was dying by the time smokeless came around. Had it survived to the smokeless powder era I believe it would have been even more popular with smokeless as the .38-55 Ballard is. The two cartridges are really very similar, with slight differences in bullet weight, diameter.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check