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Thread: Dumb question???

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Dumb question???

    Been all over the net looking for info on a lite load for my win 307.Never loaded for bottleneck cartriges before so bearwithme.When sizeing the case and the neck opening is .308 wont a 308 bullet crush the case? Also was told a 110 head with 10 gr of unique would be a lite load I was looking for,does that sound ok?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    When loading jacketed bullets in a bottleneck case there is no need to flare the case mouth. If loading cast the mouth has to be flared slightly to prevent lead shaving.

    My light loads in my 30-30 and 30-40 Krag consist of a cast bullet designed for the 32-20 and 5 gr of hogdon clays. Runs 1200 fps in the 30-30 and 11 something in the 30-40. Very accurate, pleasant to shoot. Low noise, no recoil.
    This is essentially a 32-20 black powder equivalent.

    Unique is a good choice for medium loads. I would start lower than 10 gr though. About 7 gr.
    10 gr of unique is an old standby load in military cases like 8x57, 308, 30-06, 762x54 etc. the 30-30 is slightly smaller. Off the top of my head I don’t know how much bigger the 307 is. If it’s a 308 with a rim 10 gr is fine
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    woodbutcher's Avatar
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    The .307 ain`t nothing but the rimmed version of the .308 Win round.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  4. #4
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    In a levergun don't use 308 win data in a 307 win. The 307 has a shorter COAL so many of the 308 loads are to long to cycle in a lever action. Because of the tube mag 307 loads use FN or RFN bullets to prevent a round going off in the during recoil.

    I built a marlin 336 in 307w a few years ago. i found published data to be unavailable. Since i was only going to shoot cast I end up using 308w data for a lee 150g boolit. The data was from Lyman's cast boolit handbook and i believe i used win 760 powder. I sold the gun and supplies in 2017 and didn't keep my load notes.

    BB
    Last edited by bikerbeans; 01-13-2019 at 06:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    How do I get a slight flare if I use a 309 leab bullet? Do I need a special die? Since the 307 die package only has 2 dies,and what about crimping the lead bullet.I have only ever reloaded for pistols.

  6. #6
    Boolit Man
    C-dubb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pahermit View Post
    How do I get a slight flare if I use a 309 leab bullet? Do I need a special die? Since the 307 die package only has 2 dies,and what about crimping the lead bullet.I have only ever reloaded for pistols.
    Just pick up the Lee flairing die. Its universal and cheap.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pahermit View Post
    Been all over the net looking for info on a lite load for my win 307.Never loaded for bottleneck cartriges before so bearwithme.When sizeing the case and the neck opening is .308 wont a 308 bullet crush the case? Also was told a 110 head with 10 gr of unique would be a lite load I was looking for,does that sound ok?
    FIRST - GET A RELOADING MANUAL
    SECOND - READ THAT MANUAL !

    Ok, as has been stated, the .307 Win is basically a rimmed version of the 308 Winchester BUT you can NOT use the loading data for 308 Win when loading the 307 because the case volume is not the same.

    The 307 Win and the 308 Win use the same diameter bullet (.308").

    Cartridge names have little to do with actual cartridge dimensions. The 307 designation has more to do with marketing than reality.

    So, Welcome and GET A MANUAL, READ THE MANUAL, FOLLOW THE MANUAL.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I also use the Lee flaring tool but it can be done with a pair of needle nose pliers. Just stick them in and twist a couple turns. You want just enough that the leading edge doesn’t shave lead.
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Some years back I managed to get a hold of some Win 375 big bore cases. I used Imperial sizing die wax. Started sizing them down slowly stopping them and totating them 1/2 turn then size,rotate until the rim bottomed out. The forming die was a RCBS full length sizing die in 30-30. At the same time I tried sizing those same 375 win cases again with Imperial sizing die wax. ran that one stopping and rotating the case 1/2 turn before resizing. I had just made a rimmed 308 cartridge. The 375 win cartridge is a 50k psi cartridge so well strong enough. I would tend to think that 30-30, 307. and possibly a few others are all more or less the same length.Course in the 358 with a rim size and trim then expand the case mouth and neck in a 358 FL die. The 307 should be good to go after trimming . While 375 cases do not exactly grow on tree'sand the proper neck clearance for safely letting go of the bullet. and I thing that Starline has started production on 375 cases. Those I would anneal before any sizing takes place. About the only thing to watch out for would be neck thickness. Just a suggestion for what it's worth. Frank
    Last edited by samari46; 01-15-2019 at 11:57 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    No dumb question although some dumb answers pop up now and again As stated above the mouth of a case needs to be flared slightly to accept a cast lead bullet to it doesn't shave off a little lead as the bullet is forced into the case. Jacketed bullets don't have this issue, so their cases don't need to get "flared". This flaring just need to be a very small belling of the case mouth just at the lips, so to speak. The neck remains as it was formed from the sizing die. Once the bullet is seated, a gentle crimping of the case mouth should reform the brass back to grip the bullet. I like the Lee Universal Expander to flare the mouth and the Lee Factory rimp Die to form the crimp. Good luck. ……….. and do get that manual. Tons of info there.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master RogerDat's Avatar
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    Buy the Lee universal expander but... it is just a cone shaped die that puts a flare in the case mouth. You can swap that cone shaped expander for an NOE Expander plug and get very consistent mouth size and case neck dimension. Consistent neck tension is a good thing and the dies are only $6.50 each. The expander plug replaces the cone shaped expander that drops into the Lee Universal Expander Die.
    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...sort=2a&page=2

    I think you would want the .309 x .305 so the mouth is flared .001 and the neck is tight by .003 BUT not 100% sure if this is correct die for the OP's use since I don't load for that caliber. In the calibers I do use the expander plugs I can actually feel the difference in how every bullet seats with the same amount of resistance. Easily but not loose and without shaving lead on the case mouth. Any crimp easily removes that .001 case flare.

    There is also the Lyman M die which does the same sort of thing. I haven't used those but many swear by them. Perhaps an M die user can weigh in.
    Je suis Charlie
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this way of getting casting material somehow.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks,I'm learning a lot what is correct?ere.One last question {for awhile] on another site I was told that if I used bullets to use 310 heads and not 309.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Generally boolits need to be slightly larger to fit the grooves of the rifling so, yes, a .310 lead boolit would be right.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    A Lyman M-die will PROPERLY expand your case mouth for a cast bullet.

    You won't know what diameter your bullet needs to be until you slug your bore. Sometimes a rifles bore will call for bullets that will be bigger then the chamber fit will allow to chamber.

    Also .30-30 brass has thin necks. If the case neck is not expanded properly, then you can crush the case neck. Save yourself a headache and buy a Lyman M-die (short) to start with.
    And get a Lyman Manual.

    If you can't find data, from a Reputable site, PM me & I will dig out some old MANUALS and send you some.
    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check