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Thread: using sr primer to improve the burn of slower powders ?? 38 spcl

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
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    I solved my powder burn issues by using magnum primer across the board. My worst problem was 10mm in my carbine.

  2. #22
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    The Remington 1 1/2 will pierce at higher pressure levels beyond 38 Plus P. Other brands will not.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    I have used some sr primers in 38 and 380 when they were hard to get, and didnt notice any difference. For your stated goals I believe a powder change will give better results. I have found excellent results with cfe pistol when trying to get higher velocity in all my pistol loads (380, 38 and 45) with a mellow recoil pulse and notably milder report. Haven't done much with the 38 lately, but i can get a 95 grain v-crown out of my taurus tcp at a chronographed 950 with much less felt recoil and easier follow ups than factory loaded Hornady critical or American gunner, which both chronograph only 820's in the same gun. Also has almost no muzzle flash (lemon sized orange-red shooting at night), fills the case more than bulleseye, tg, hs-6 etc, and very clean cases.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    i think some of you still are not reading what i said.
    using a different primer to get a more efficient burn from a slower powder.
    as an example can i get more than 67% burn out of accurate#9 by changing primers.
    if 10.1 gives 943fps with a std primer but only 67% burn, can i get
    940fps, with 8 gr and a hotter primer and 90% burn.

    again it is about powder burn efficiency....quit throwing away 1/3 of your powder.
    mild recoil, maintain velocity.
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I used identical powder charges with different hotter primers, not lighter powder charges with hotter primers versus heavier powder charges with standard primers.

    I didn’t get what you were looking for in terms of actual measured efficiency. Even under the testing conditions I employed, which are supposedly more favorable to efficiency.

    If a hotter primer used with a lighter powder charge gives identical pressure and velocity to a heavier powder charge used with a milder primer, it is hard to see how efficiency and powder burn will improve. Load efficiency and powder burn improves with increases in pressure. If pressure remains the same efficiency and powder burn will not improve.

  6. #26
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    How can you tell the burn efficiency. 67% vs 90%. Is this just a computer program or is there some other method. As far as efficient cci there is no difference between sp and sr if you call them get the tec. Specs for both they are the same( came from another member)

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Accu #9 was what i was having the most problems with not burning all the way. A chrono would be handy for comparing. Im thinking about getting one.

  8. #28
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    Some powders are just not going to work as well at lower pressures as others. Bullseye works at lot better in 38 Special standard pressure loads than 2400 does.

    The problem is the powder used and the pressure it is used at when “efficient or not” is assessed. If running at standard 38 Special pressures it makes little sense to use significantly more slow powder and get poor ballistic consistency along with it. When powders get significantly slower than Unique or Herco they beccome less viable at 38 Special standard pressures.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    mike in co - We are trying to help. You can test different primers to see if it helps, we just don't believe that it WILL help much.

    I did think of one thing that you could try to get more powder burning; Heavier Crimps might help there. Unsure how much of a crimp you are using currently so this may not help you get more powder to burn.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    I don't see the point unless #9 or other slow burner is the only powder you have. I'd run a spp and HS-6. Will have a smaller charge than #9, similar velocity, low muzzle flash and better burn. HS-6 is a low flash powder. Try different powders until you get the recoil impulse you prefer. For instance Power Pistol is quite a bit different than HS-6. PP is a snappy flashy powder despite having similar charge weights to HS-6.

    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    How can you tell the burn efficiency. 67% vs 90%. Is this just a computer program or is there some other method. As far as efficient cci there is no difference between sp and sr if you call them get the tec. Specs for both they are the same( came from another member)
    Quickload gives you an estimation of burn efficiency. (computer program)

  11. #31
    Boolit Master wonderwolf's Avatar
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    Slower powders are not ideal for shorter barrels. If you want the most out of a slower powder you need more barrel length. I've done a lot of testing with this in 38 and 357 between 5 different barrel lengths and many bullet weights and powders. I plan to redo my tests when I get a suppressor in hand to see just how those slower powders in longer barrels work with subsonic loads.

    I'm not going to use 2400 in my 2" snub nose when I know bullseye is going to achieve my goal. Likewise I'm not going to use bullseye in my 357 rifle when I know 2400 will get me more velocity and do it safer.
    My firearms project blog

  12. #32
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    If you are using a computer program why not just use what it says is best? Forgive my ignorance i am not up to date on somethings never used a program for loading.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    go read what i posted
    english is actually pretty simple.
    it is written in black and white( well my screen is grey)

    Quote Originally Posted by dkf View Post
    I don't see the point )
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    or maybe i could try a DIFFERENT PRIMER.


    AS A SIDE NOTE...WHY WOULD YOU PUT A SUPPRESSOR ON A REVOLVER ?
    Quote Originally Posted by wonderwolf View Post
    Slower powders are not ideal for shorter barrels. If you want the most out of a slower powder you need more barrel length. I've done a lot of testing with this in 38 and 357 between 5 different barrel lengths and many bullet weights and powders. I plan to redo my tests when I get a suppressor in hand to see just how those slower powders in longer barrels work with subsonic loads.

    I'm not going to use 2400 in my 2" snub nose when I know bullseye is going to achieve my goal. Likewise I'm not going to use bullseye in my 357 rifle when I know 2400 will get me more velocity and do it safer.
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    PROGRAMS are just tools..they are not BIBLES.
    i have years of experience working with tools, enough to know that if i change a single
    component( say a PRIMER) i can change the out come.

    i was asking if anyone had done what i listed,
    no one has, and almost everyone else has an issue reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    If you are using a computer program why not just use what it says is best? Forgive my ignorance i am not up to date on somethings never used a program for loading.
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Mike give the magnum primers a try like i was talking about. Made a noticeable difference.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy wildcatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike in co View Post
    i think some of you still are not reading what i said.
    using a different primer to get a more efficient burn from a slower powder.
    as an example can i get more than 67% burn out of accurate#9 by changing primers.
    if 10.1 gives 943fps with a std primer but only 67% burn, can i get
    940fps, with 8 gr and a hotter primer and 90% burn.

    again it is about powder burn efficiency....quit throwing away 1/3 of your powder. mild recoil, maintain velocity.

    go read what i posted
    english is actually pretty simple.
    it is written in black and white( well my screen is grey)
    Looks like like you want really bad to be right. Sorry it's pretty simple english in black and white as you put it.

    NO there is no way anyone can tell you a rifle primer will do what you want!

    In the first place it is a known fact various rifle primers have different flash burns, some shorter hotter, some longer and cooler and some just the opposite!

    Then there is a fact that they do have harder cups, this could and has caused unreliable ignition in some handguns resulting in wider velocity spreads and poor accuracy!

    If you want more heat and flash for ignition the smart thing to do is use the magnum version of the primer make you are currently using!

    It is a fact that some magnum primers with some powders not considered magnum powders suffer drastically from the use of the hotter primer.

    My thought is if you don't like facts don't ask questions that call for pure speculation! Try it in the particular weapon after understanding all these variables that apply to their use and see which one applies in your situation. But since your asking questions and not willing to understand the possible outcomes being given to you, maybe you should consider who is having the issues understanding simple English????????

  18. #38
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Well excuse me for intruding into your little world. May not be the best reader only been doing it for 60 years or so but my mama taught me manners.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    if you read the question and you have done it YES YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
    it is pretty simple.
    ANSWER the question I ASKED,
    NOT THE QUESTION YOU WOULD LIKE TO ANSWER
    i asked if anyone had done this with a short bbl'd 38 spcl
    seems the question is simple
    either you did or you did not.
    if you did not, please go away.
    if you did, tell me your results, do not tell me a story.
    i DID NOT ASK FOR SPECULATION...i asked for DATA.
    you have no data, do not reply.
    life is simple
    read the question, do you have specific data related to the question?
    yes,, reply
    no, DO NOT REPLY.

    YOU DID NOT DO IT...SO YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE REPLIED..unless you like seeing your name in print.
    you added nothing to the question.


    Quote Originally Posted by wildcatter View Post
    Looks like like you want really bad to be right. Sorry it's pretty simple english in black and white as you put it.

    NO there is no way anyone can tell you a rifle primer will do what you want!

    In the first place it is a known fact various rifle primers have different flash burns, some shorter hotter, some longer and cooler and some just the opposite!

    Then there is a fact that they do have harder cups, this could and has caused unreliable ignition in some handguns resulting in wider velocity spreads and poor accuracy!

    If you want more heat and flash for ignition the smart thing to do is use the magnum version of the primer make you are currently using!

    It is a fact that some magnum primers with some powders not considered magnum powders suffer drastically from the use of the hotter primer.

    My thought is if you don't like facts don't ask questions that call for pure speculation! Try it in the particular weapon after understanding all these variables that apply to their use and see which one applies in your situation. But since your asking questions and not willing to understand the possible outcomes being given to you, maybe you should consider who is having the issues understanding simple English????????
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  20. #40
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    Another case of someone with nothing better to do than to create an argument.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check