Barrel break in with jacketed or cast?

[DeadWoodDan]

Purchased a Savage Axis XP in .30-06 before Christmas, couldn't pass it up on sale and with rebate should cost me around $145. Thought this would be a perfect dedicated cast bullet rifle to use around the farm and woods. Was wondering members thoughts regarding barrel break in using either jacketed or cast and will it matter? Knowing these barrels are most likely least expensive made and was curious if jacketed bullets would smooth out any imperfect machine marks etc.?

I am familiar with the Sav. line, and know these are the least expensive rifles they manufacture. My first goal will be to see how accurate this will shoot out to 100yds with a few different molds I have. Then work on some hunting loads for around the area.

[JSnover]

A lot of people will break them in with copper first, just like some cast shooters will never befoul their bores with that demon metal. Keep the barrel clean and cool in either case.

[charlie b]

If it were me....I'd do the break in with jacketed and even shoot a few hundred more as a "standard" of the rifle's accuracy potential, ie, if you can shoot a 1/2MOA group with jacketed, then you know what the rifle should be able to do with cast.

Just get a GOOD copper remover when you decide to shoot cast. I like KG12 a lot (I've tried quite a few).

FWIW, my Axis in .223 took several hundred rounds to break in. You can shorten the process by following a good break in procedure and use some bore paste to smooth up the throat.

[dverna]

Agree....I would use jacketed for break in.

[gnostic]

Years ago the NRA said not to attempt breaking in a barrel, you can't. If a hundred or so rounds would break it in, a thousand rounds would wear it out. If you look at a shot out barrel, you'll notice that the wear is in the first 6" past the throat.

[Love Life]

Get some Tubbs final finish bullets

[country gent]

I do a 1 shot clean break in on most of my barrels. The last 3 or so I had my Hawkeye bore scope with me and checked between strings. I break in with the bullets the rifle s to be used with. My break in is as follows
1 round clean for 10 rounds clean checking for fouling ( jacketed are easier here theres the color change of the solvent when jacket fouling is present)
2 rounds clean 5 times check
3 rounds clean 5 times and check
5 rounds clean 3 times and check
10 round groups and clean till satisfied.
What I saw in the bore scope was the radial cutting pattern in the throat / leade smoothed out and became "softer" looking. While the visual didn't change a lot further forward the shine or evenness of did get more consistent. I don believe you will see huge improvements in accuracy but will see an improvement on shot placement of the first shot from a cold clean barrel. A barrel that cleans easier.
The biggest changes visually seen were in this order Paper Patched bullets, these polished the bore up the most ( possibly due to the abrasiveness of the paper). Jacketed again a slight abrasiveness coupled with a harder surface. the last or lowest was grease groove cast bullets lead and the lube has a lubricating quality is softest.
I normally use a lighter load for break in. I believe the cleaning between keeps the hard abrasive carbon fouling out of the picture. It may help the barrel to relieve some stresses left from machining. And that the slightly improved surface helps shots to go into the group even from a cold clean barrel. I look at it not so much as a break in as a seasoning of the barrel

[DeadWoodDan]

Thanks everyone, very much appreciate others thoughts as it seems I am headed in the correct direction.

[b2lee]

If I'm not mistaken...the Savage Axis AP is a button rifled barrel. Button rifling doesn't need to be lapped after production because it is smooth...unlike cut rifling or broach rifling. I don't think any amount of soft copper and lead will smooth anything in the barrel out more than it already is. I think the explosion of powder will eat away the throat way before any measurable differences in the rifling can be done with soft metals.

[CamoWhamo]

If it were me....I'd do the break in with jacketed and even shoot a few hundred more as a "standard" of the rifle's accuracy potential, ie, if you can shoot a 1/2MOA group with jacketed, then you know what the rifle should be able to do with cast.

I hear ya.

I just had a Rifle re-barrelled into .357 Max with the intention of only ever firing cast through it.
It shot (shoots) poorly with cast so i was feeling a bit dejected with the rifle.
I loaded up some jacketed and they shoot very tight groups so i'm happy now that i know the rifle can shoot.
I'll go back to trying cast after i've shot a couple hundred jacketed.

[JSnover]

If I'm not mistaken...the Savage Axis AP is a button rifled barrel. Button rifling doesn't need to be lapped after production because it is smooth...unlike cut rifling or broach rifling. I don't think any amount of soft copper and lead will smooth anything in the barrel out more than it already is.

https://absolutemachine.com/what-is-button-rifling/

<<The simplest types of rifling buttons merely cut the grooves into the barrel. These leave some burrs in the barrel after the grooves have been cut, so the barrel needs to be finished separately if these cutters are used. Some other rifling buttons are combo buttons that have both a rifling button and a finishing button or sizing button following it. The rifling part cuts the grooves and the finishing part pushes the burrs back in and straightens out the edges caused by the rifling part of the button.>>

We're not necessarily breaking in our barrels because we know there's something wrong, we're doing it because we know there might be something wrong. A barrel that was properly rifled but improperly finished... it happens.

[largom]

I would Fire-Lap the barrel either with Tubb's Final Finish or with cast boolits lubed with fine valve grinding compound. I do this to any new gun/barrel I get. Lots of info on this site regarding fire-lapping.
Larry

[charlie b]

Saw an interview with the owner of one of the custom barrel makers (don't remember which).

He made the only statement I have heard that made sense to me as an engineer.

'Most barrels these days are finely finished when bored and rifled, no matter who makes them. The 'scratches' in the barrel are along the bore, not that much of a problem. The problem is the chambering reamer. It leaves radial scratches in the throat. The scratches scrape off some copper. The hot, high pressure gases eject that copper down the barrel. That is why he recommends a break in procedure of some sort, to clean up those reamer marks.'

It has certainly worked for me, but, I am not a bench rest shooter.

FWIW, the bench rest guys I knew who shot cast did fire lap. They had a very specific process and used low velocity rounds for that purpose. There was a series of articles in the bench rest magazine (Precision Shooting?) back in the 80's about cast bullets, fire lapping, bullet hardness, etc, etc. I wish I still had them.

[725]

MGM make fine barrels and they recommend something like fire one, clean; 5 cycles, fire two, clean; 5 cycles, fire ? 5 ?, clean; 5 cycles, all this with copper jacketed. Clean well when finished. They make 'em, so I take their advise.

[crankycalico]

just clean the barrel, slowly shoot a 20 round box of factory jacketed through it. keep the barrel cool. when done, scrub the barrel out with the Remington 40x bore paste. REALLY helps.

[Static line]

I eventually came to grips and figured beak-in was a waste of time and money but if you do a break-in with "J" bullets,make sure all the coppers is out of the bore before you shoot cast. Lead plus copper equal solder.Do you want that in your bore? Then you got to ask yourself," did I get all that copper out with that expensive copper remover and all those cleaning patches? You will never know. Twer me,I'd just shoot the darn thing and enjoy a longer barrel life.

[charlie b]

FYI, factory barrels are test fired with jacketed so there will be some copper fouling on a brand new barrel.

[Static line]

FYI, factory barrels are test fired with jacketed so there will be some copper fouling on a brand new barrel.

I know that but why add to it? At 71 years old,I have learned a few things.It will be a lot easier to remove a little bit of copper fouling then a lot.Does that make better sense now?

[JSnover]

I don't think the copper will ruin your barrel unless you have a real problem with fouling, it will start with erosion in the throat caused by the burning powder, assuming your barrel gets normal care. By the time you see significant wear in the bore you most likely have a lot more in the throat.

[Static line]

No,copper will not ruin your barrel, throat erosion will.I agree with that. I have merely stated that copper and lead makes solder,a hard substance to remove from the bore.