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Thread: Making 375 Nitro Express brass??

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Making 375 Nitro Express brass??

    Anyone know what I can make 375 Rimless Nitro Express brass from and what tools/dies I will need to do that?
    Its also call 9.5X57 Mannlicher.
    I have a lot of dies but no 375NE dies but may be I could use some of my larger dies with changed out expander balls to open something up, but will still need to resize it to 375NE size with the shoulder in the correct place.
    Ron

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    C-H makes dies for it, not too pricey but not cheap either, but have bought dies from them and they are definitely worth the $$. You may be able to form from 8 X 57 as the base and rim are the same but the cases will need fire forming to expand shoulder diameter. Brass is available from Bertram but is very expensive.

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    Boolit Buddy fralic76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronniet View Post
    Anyone know what I can make 375 Rimless Nitro Express brass from and what tools/dies I will need to do that?
    Its also call 9.5X57 Mannlicher.
    I have a lot of dies but no 375NE dies but may be I could use some of my larger dies with changed out expander balls to open something up, but will still need to resize it to 375NE size with the shoulder in the correct place.
    Ron
    I just looked in "The handloaders manual of cartridge conversions, Fourth edition" and did not find 375 Rimless Nitro Express.

    Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
    Using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Yea, its probably listed as a 9.5x57 Mannlicher Shonouer? spelling?
    Ron

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    Last edited by skeettx; 01-17-2019 at 09:13 AM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Yes! thank you

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    Boolit Buddy
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    I make mine from 8x57Mauser for a 1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer. They call it the 9.5x57mm M/S.
    The British gunmakers planted their own cartridge designation on the custom rifles they produced
    in that caliber as the .375 N/E Rimless. (Nitro Express Rimless)
    Sometimes further ID'g the cartridge with a '2 1/4" Case' designation in the line.


    The cartridge is actually a few .000 smaller in dia at the head than the standard x57mm case (or the 30-06 case).
    The 8x56M/S and the 9x56M/S have the same difference in spec.


    But many rifles chambered for it will accept ammunition made from the Mauser brass and '06 brass with no problem. If they won't chamber, then the base dia of the case will need to be turned down those few .000 in dia. I simply spin them in my lathe and with a sharp fine cut file make an educated swipe accross the base. .
    The rim dia of the M/S & the x57Mauser is the same,,don't reduce the rim dia along with the base/head dia.

    I have 9.5x56 dies for loading,,

    You can make do in forming brass by expanding the 8mmMauser up to .400.
    The slowly neck it back down to .375 trying the case as you form the false shoulder till it chambers.

    This works if you have a pile of odd dies available to you to work with in necking up and down.
    Then trim, load and fireform.
    After that neck size only as you have no FL sizer.
    Again,,you need to have that armload of odd dies around to make this work for you.
    Some handloaders do,,some don't.

    If you start buying odd stuff just to make do and cut corners,,my advise is to stop and just go buy a set of dedicated caliber reloading dies.

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    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Thanks to all that replied, I think I will do this build and I do have a "pile" of dies , and a bucket of fired 30-06 Commercial brass. I am sure I can make some brass cases.
    Let me ask, can I use a Lee 375 H&H collet die for neck sizing the 375 Nitro? will the body do that or is that die too long? Looking for a cheap way to neck size it with out buying a 375 Nitro sizing die. Maybe a 375 something else? and a Seater Die? something other than a 375 Nitro die? I am going to have to buy the 375 Nitro fl die. that may hurt?
    Ron

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    Boolit Master



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    You got a set of 41 Colt dies? Neck size with that.

    As far as full length sizing, I would full length size with 8x57
    then expand the neck to hold a .375 bullet.

    Then load and shoot, seat the cast bullet out long
    to hold the case back against the bolt.

    Then neck size with 41 colt dies or ??

    yada, yada, yata

    Mike
    Last edited by skeettx; 01-16-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Yep, I got 41 colt dies, Mike, I got 8X57 dies too, if I don't have an expander I have made them before to make 401WSL brass from AK brass.
    its a stepped expander.
    Do you think the 0-6 brass would need annealed at the top to form with the 8x57?
    Ron

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



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    No, and the 06 brass is so plentiful, if you get a few cracks, not an issue
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    I had a set of 41 mag dies, I took the expander out ( body was made of aluminum RCBS) and turned the first 1/2 of that steel expander to .374 and used that after I full length resized them with the 8x57 die and then used my stepped .401 WSL expander up to the 2nd step which left the I.D. of the neck at .366 Then used the remade 41 expander to get to the size.
    The bass measure about 2.210 OAL. RP brass.
    If I were to find a seater die with out buying the expensive 9.5x57 die , what caliber of die would work with this 8 x57 body and .375 bullet. 375 Rem, ruger H&H etc etc?
    Ron

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a MS 1905 that I had rebored/rerifled and chambered to 9.5x57 . I've been making brass from 30-06 since 1982? Anneal , open mouths w/homemade expander , trim to 2.250"(a lot , used milling machine) deburr and F/L size to fit your chamber. Most all my loadings are Speer 235gr. semi spitzer. Wanted to try Hornady 225 gr. spirepoints but they killed them

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    The 9.5X57 was both a Mauser and a Mannlicher chambering.
    30-06 and 35 Whelen brass should work fine.
    EDG

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    after almost a year I threaded , and chambered my barrel , headspaced the last few thousands by hand while on the reciever.
    I am .002 over the go gauge, both go gauge and reamer was made new for me by PT&G pilot type both marked 9.5x57 MS
    type A.
    My formed 8x57 brass was necked up and then FL resized sized using RCBS dies marked 9.5x57.
    Trimmed at 2.245 and de burred.
    The formed brass will chamber but NOT with a cast bullet seated.
    I received 3 different cast bullet batches from a member here? don't remember who. In grains of 245 to 270 I set is GC.
    The are lubed and sized at .376.5 when I seat them in my brass the o.d. of the brass neck then is @ .396 and will not chamber.
    Should these cast bullets be sized at .375?
    What does your necks o.d. measure with and without a bullet seated and what size are your bullets', cast or jacketed? Having hell here.
    I have measured my expander ball and the inside of my dies ( bought them used) ball seems a bit small? dont know what the ball should measure? I understand the dies squeeze's the neck down but the ball is the last thing to open it up on the down stroke.
    Ron

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    Did the chambering reamer also cut the throat in the bbl? Might seem like a silly question but some reamers are made w/o the throat section and that is cut separately.

    If the throat is cut, then the loaded cartridge sounds like the seated bullet expands the neck too far.
    The wall thickness of the brass in the neck may be too thick,,or to put it another way it may be thick enough so it could be reamed thinner. That way the seated bullet would not expand the neck of the case too much that it wouldn't chamber.

    Other than that, I would suspect the cast bullet dia is a bit too large. But they really don't sound like it from the specs you give.
    Maybe I'm just used to the looser specs of factory production.

    Try 'rolling' one of the cast bullets to reduce the dia a couple .000. Then seat it in a sized case and see if it chambers.

    Take one of the bullets and place it on a flat, smooth, hard surface,,like a steel table top.
    Then take apiece of steel or brass about 12" long and at least as wide as the bullet is long,,preferably a bit wider.
    This piece of metal must also be nice and smooth and straight.

    Press down on the bullet lightly with the piece of metal and 'roll' the bullet back and forth on the hard surface while doing so.

    This will reduce the dia of the bullet rather quickly AND evenly. It won't take much work to do this.
    Roll one down to .375 dia , seat it and see if it will chamber.

    If not then take another step and thin the neck wall if possible a .000 on each side and try again with another .375 bullet and see where that goes.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Yes reamer cut the throat at the .375 size .
    Yes the brass neck expands when bullet is loaded but not to the size of the cut neck size.
    I did reduce the size of the cast bullet and loaded one dummy to check again still a no go so I am thinking the ojive of the cast bullet is more than the the ojive of say a jacketed round. still waiting on the jacketed bullets to arrive.
    I did find out one very important thing after chambering and headspacing the barrel.
    I found that I could NOT chamber a formed bras empty case even with sufficient headspace.
    Using a Large black magic marker I kept marking and allowing the case to dry , placing it in the barrel without touching the chamber before closing the bolt on it.( no extractor on bolt either).
    I found that only the shoulder was touching.
    My brass was formed with 8x57 RP and 30-06 RP cases.
    Using a RCBS 9.5x57 fl die set. and trimmed to min. length.
    I could not understand or figure how to cure that?
    I remembered I had this problem years ago with a 300 savage I made and I bough a SB RCBS die for it and it still would not chamber.
    Contacted RCBS and they had me send the new SB die and the shell holder and 3 fired cases I was using to thme for evaluation, I could a call form RCBS technician one day telling me my problem.
    Me shoulder was too far to the rear and the technician too off .002 of the bottom of the die and it worked. Sent them back to me and was marked with my name and SPL. on them to show they had me modified.
    Well I though about taking off a .002 of the 9.5 die bottom but after thinking on it for a couple days I decided to look at my shell holder.
    It was a Lyman holder of the correct number for the dies.
    I looked at every die I had for a RCBS #3 shell holder and only had ONE out of all the dies I own.
    I mic'ed the holder and there was a size reduction of .002 between it and the Lyman.
    I placed the RCBS #3 in the press and bingo every piece of brass I had formed them chambered easily on the shoulder , perfect headspace for the cases.
    Moral of the story, use the shell holder that is made for the brand of dies you have !

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    My .375 Rimless Nitro Express 2 1/4" rifle is now finished.

    I form my cases from 30-06 brass. I neck them up to 8mm and then 35 caliber. I shorten the case to 2.35 inches then necking them to 375.

    I'm using a set of dies made by CH. The thing I noticed is that if I full length resize the case at this time I create a cartridge with excessive headspace. This is because the shoulder of the form cartridge is smaller than the chamber walls and there is nothing to headspace to.

    I have found if I place a set of feeler gauges (totaling .021) between the shell holder and the base of the sizing dies I can set a false shoulder for fire forming. Then trim them to 2.28

    After I have formed the case I anneal the shoulder and neck of the case. I have not yet lost a case while fire forming. After fire forming them I uniform the length to 2.23

    I have worked up quite a few loads with 220 gr to 300 gr bullets using 4 or five different powders.

    CA Dude

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Y4es Ed I read your post about the brass, I did it and I like the 30-06 brass better has a thich neck and I can make it right up to the maximum at 2.250 the 8x57 was terribly thin necks and too short,
    My headspace problem with the RCBS dies was just the opposite of yours I have to get the RCBS shell holder and then it chambered without mashing the brass into it.
    I use CH4D dies too, I just ordered some more case lube and to case holders from Dave. The lube is the best I ever used bar none, it will form my mag brass and other brass in dies that are only FL and I don't have to buy expensive forming dies, Dave turned me onto it long ago when I went to order form 275 H&H mag forming dies form him, sent sent me a free Jar of the lube and told me how to use it in my FL 275 dies to make the brass and it worked.
    Are using a CH4D shell holder with your dies? Just saying. when I switched to the RCBS correct for my dies it chambered perfectly.
    I sent you a PM about your bullets.
    Ron

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    After thinking about it Ed , I did have the same problem as you did with the shoulder.
    I had to move it back .002.
    I did it by using the RCBS shell holder instead of my Lyman SH.
    Even though the RCBS FL die was adjusted up tight where the press cams it to the shell holder rim the part where the brass case sits was TOO far down for it to set the shoulder in the correct place. I didn't have to change my die setting I just switched Shell holders and wall-ah it moved the shoulder back so they would chamber. So it was the same problem as you had.
    Ron

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check