Again, not talking about WHY the .30-06 is extremely popular but rather; does that extreme popularity cause the cartridge to be selected without consideration ?
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Again, not talking about WHY the .30-06 is extremely popular but rather; does that extreme popularity cause the cartridge to be selected without consideration ?
To the latter part of your question, I say yes. Of course this is the same reason why so many rifles in .223, .22-250, .243, .270, 7mm Remington Mag, and .30-30 are still sold every year both used and new. The average hunter is not a cartridge or bore diameter nerd. He/she is going to select a rifle and cartridge that will get the job done handily, has factory ammo available everywhere, and doesn't require hundreds of rounds of handloading experimentation.
I love the .257 Roberts and I freely admit I am a cartridge nerd. I also admit that, I have probably spent twice as much time and money on everything related to this cartridge to end up with basically the same performance as I could get from just buying a quality .243 rifle off the shelf and using good factory ammo or known handloads. I also have a Remington 700 6.5 Creedmoor, a $400.00 off the shelf rifle. With less than 100 rounds of experience and trying one powder and bullet, I am already near my semi-custom .257 in terms of accuracy.
Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.
Fill me in.Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder
I think it used to be, but not now. 30-06 gets mentioned but not promoted like the smaller calibers do these days.
Anyone who recently took up centerfire rifle shooting/hunting has mostly been exposed to the smaller than .30 calibers as being able to do it all.
6.5 Creedmore being the most recent bandwagon. Lets face it, 243 Win will kill nearly anything on this continent reasonably well. A 6.5 should do it very well also. No real need for 30-06.
purple font denotes sarcasm
All cartridges are good!
Some cartridges have the ability to perform a curtain task better than others.
And some cartridges can perform more tasks than others, the 30-06 just happens to be one of them!
Political correctness is a national suicide pact.
I am a sovereign individual, accountable
only to God and my own conscience.
i'd noticed alot of guys USED the '06 but they were gobbledygooked into MAGNUM(ultra, short mag...) cartridge. they would go out and buy magnum, shoot it a couple times and go out and hunt with it. after a box of shells, they decided that they can't stand the recoil, so they go back to the '06 and sell their magnum.
i was always(11 years old at the time) interested in oddball calibers but then reality struck me on the head and i could not afford one. the 30-30 was my first rifle and then when turned 17y.o. i got a '06. by the time i was 25 or 26 y.o. the '06 bored me. i've used calibers from .204" to the .510" and i think that i've have cartridges that i "need". and the '06 isn't one of them.
if i were to have just one rifle, then it would be the '06. from groundhogs to grizzlies, the '06 has done it. i've never shot them but didn't remington have a 50-55gr sabot in the '06?
when i first started handloading it was the '06. 125gr fn up to 180gr rn with powders i can't remember because their were so many of them!!! a 150gr bullet shredded deer. a 165gr bullet was just about right. the only factory load i have done was a 180gr rem round nose and boy that was great on deer/black bear. i bought 9 or 10 boxes of them. my dad, my brother and two son's have an '06. but i don't. the 308win was sold long ago. now its down to the 30-30 and the 30-40 krag. the 30-30 is going with me when i'm dead, but i'm having a hard time cremating it along with me!!! now if the 270 vs '06 ever came up, that one would be interesting!!! oh, i'm a big 270 fan!!!!
you boys with your little 8x57, try a 9.3x57!!!
An acquaintance had a couple of rifles chambered in .30-06 and he's an avid hunter. He's not really a "gun guy" and I know that one of those rifles came from his father. So he used the .30-06 mostly because that was what he had always used and it was what his father used.
NOTHING wrong with that and he did good work with those rifles.
A mutual friend was selling a rifle chambered in 7mm-08 and he purchased it with some trepidation. I reassured him that the 7mm-08 was an excellent cartridge. That was about 5 years ago and by his own statements, he hasn't hunted with the .30-06 since he obtained that 7mm-08.
He has killed his limit of deer every year with that 7mm-08 and has never lost a deer. He has expressed his gratitude for my recommendation that he try that cartridge.
He is a good hunter and a good marksman but he never would have branched out of his comfort zone without some outside influence.
There's no doubt that he could do good work with the .30-06 but the entrenched reputation of the 06 prevented him from even considering a different cartridge.
Really, because I liked where he was going.
Gladly, if I could fine something nice chambered in it.
WHY would I spend MORE on a rifle in say, 6.5 creedmore, so I can pay MORE on cost of ammunition, PLUS have a harder time finding ammunition in a store?
reputation doesnt mean anything long term. 40 sw has a bad reputation online, yet people still buy these handguns left and right because they decided to.
30-06 doesnt prevent me from buying any other cartridge. What prevents ME from buying into other cartridges is that in the last 20 years, MOST cartridges come out with such sycophantic self masturbatory press coverage, that its just disgusting to consider new cartridges.
And then what REALLY gets me off of new cartridges, is the gun magazines. Why is it that these magaziens like "Recoil" bring 2 or 3 greasy, nasty looking, 400 pound so called "special ops" veterans to sell me the latest whizbang cartridge?
This isn't about the .30-06 being a great cartridge - the .30-06 IS a great cartridge.
This isn't about WHY the .30-06 is a great cartridge, although lots of contributors seem to feel compelled to list its attributes.
This is about the .30-06 having become a bit of a scared cow.
Here come the flames, and maybe a ban...
1. The .30 caliber (or '3 Line', 3/10" on a machinist ruler) is an arbitrary number, originally chosen simply because its 3/10".
.30 calibers have been around as long as gunsmiths/machinists have had rulers broken into 1/10" to gauge them by.
This will be a revelation for some that don't understand that digital equipment & lasers haven't been around since the beginning of time,
But a MACHINIST made every single barrel, and an inch is easiest to break down by tenths.
With a 1" standard, it was easiest to break down that unit of measure (with dividers) into 1/10 increments.
It's just that simple...
2. There were .30 caliber barrels before rifling, .30 caliber smooth bore pistols in particular were small enough to be concealed, while .30 caliber smooth bore muskets saved on the cost of lead, which wasn't cheap back in those days...
3. .30 caliber 'Kentucky Long Rifles' picked off British officers & cannon crews during the American Revolution...
And they fed countless families before their use as 'Sniper' rifles or battle rifles.
4. Not everyone was a big game hunter (buffalo, bears, ect.) and a .30 cal made sense for them.
Bores were always MUCH bigger when larger, dangerous game was around.
When the objective was to kill, rather than wound your 'Enemy' in battle, bores got as large as a full inch.
Military adopted large bores to kill rather than wound, and when velocities got high enough, range was increased by using a .30 caliber rather than a .45 caliber (or larger).
5. The invention of nitro-cellulose ('Smokeless') powder gave increased velocity, and bore diameter was reduced to .30 caliber, while range increased, with the same stopping power of larger calibers.
Weight of ammo load was also reduced, and the amount of raw materials was also reduced, it made economic sense along with a longer reaching weapon.
6. Not to break the hearts of fans, but the .30-06 wasn't anything new.
The Germans were using the rimless case (7.92x57, or '8mm Mauser) and the Russians were using a rimmed version (7.62x54) long before the US adopted the .30 caliber of 1906 (.30-06) or .30 US.
The US actually paid royalties to Mauser for the design of the 1903 Springfield rifle until WWI.
7. With more than 50 years of improvements in 'Gunpowder' (actually it's propellant), along came the short case .308 Winchester, or in the military it's 7.62x51 NATO round.
Ballistically, there is little to no difference between the .30-06 & .308, the .308 simply uses less of a 'Hotter' propellant.
Shorter case means shorter stroke in actions, and shorter stroke means a more rigid receiver, less twist when the rifle is fired.
8. The 'Sub' .30 cal round isn't new either, 6.5 and 6.8mm rounds were considered when NATO was testing for a 'Standard' after WWII. While many were more accurate than the .308, the US, largest supplier of firearms adopted the 7.62 (.308 clone) and since the US was supplying everyone, the 7.62x51 got adopted by NATO.
9. Civilians adopt military calibers because of cheap ammo.
When manufacturers tool up for military production (tens of millions per year) the cost of that ammo comes down.
Surplus firearms chambered in that particular military caliber swamped the market, driving demand for ammo.
10. While there were more powerful calibers out there, the military gave away free ammo in both .45-70 & .45 Colt.
Colt outsold Smith & Wesson 30:1 because they had military contracts, and could produce & sell a pistol for $13 that shot low cost or free ammo (.45 Colt)
While being vastly better pistol, the Smith & Wesson was chambered in .44 (no free or surplus ammo), and without a military contract the pistol cost $30 retail.
11. The ONLY non-military caliber to catch on without a military contract in that period was the .30-30 Winchester.
Not everyone wanted a shoulder busting single shot .45-70, or the 'Poodle Shooter' of the day, a lever action that fired popular pistol cartridges you couldn't buy on the surplus market.
.30-30 was enough to bust varmints, get small game without tearing it into hamburger, and would still put down deer without a problem...
This was America's introduction to jacketed bullets, and necked down cases, a love affair that's still happening, the .30-30 is still something that everyone has or wants, truly an American classic!
12. The military thought that lever action was too expensive, and too fast, and would lead to soldiers wasting ammo, they adopted the .30-40 Kreg instead....
The less said about a short barreled, odd ball, difficult to load bolt rifle the better,
And when adopted, there were MUCH morning powerful rounds available, again, the less said the better...
Keep in mind when the .30-40 Kreg was adopted, belt fed machine guns were being used, a complete & utter disconnect in the brains of the military at the time.
-------
Now...
Everytime I see some 'New & Improved' cartridge come along,
I can usually name at least a half dozen others just like it that have already failed.
I shoot military calibers the most for the same reasons our ancestors did, cheap & available ammo, and the coyote never seems to care if it was a military caliber, wildcat or civilian sporting cartridge that carried the bullet into the chamber, or if it was a .223 diameter, .308 diameter, or something in between...
Not one target or varmint has ever lodged a complaint
There is one thing I can tell you, you can find .30-06 ammo ANYWHERE in the free world.
From Africa to Afghanistan, from Brazil to Artic Barrens, there will be .30-06 on the shelf.
That should give you a good idea of how USEFUL the round has been, and continues to be...
IVe figured out your problem. Your problem is that your realizing that the new modern, barrel killing cartridges are not better then the ancient 30-06.
Its true, a 6.5 mm bullet at 3000 fps is not the match for a 30-06.
ALOT of people got suckered into 223 and 556 just because the ammo was anywhere. And once they had the gun, they had to use it for things it wasn't meant for.
https://www.simpsonltd.com/collectio...rice-ascending
i have 2 husky m46 in 9.3x57. someday i'll buy a husky m146 in 9.3x57.
I'm in Canada so it's a bit of a pain to import stuff and it would more than double the price. But I know a place or two that brings stuff like that in, i'll have to keep a lookout. That's a lot of rifle for the money.
*EDIT*
I actually found similar rifles are available. Can you give me a quick rundown of the various types of Husqvarna sporters or point me to where I can?
Sorry for dragging this off topic a bit. For the sake of this thread, i'll definitely agree with the sentiment that there's nothing inherently special about the fuddy, it's just the inertia of it's popularity keeping it going. JeepHammer basically summed up my thoughts on the matter very thoroughly.
It's definitely not going anywhere due to how many rifles are floating around chambered in it, but I don't see why anyone would buy one new for any purpose other than familiarity. It's never a bad choice, but also never the best. Although if you're just a hunter and only buy commercial ammo you'll always have a good selection at any hole in the wall store you walk into.
Last edited by Peregrine; 01-12-2019 at 06:58 PM.
Well thank you for telling me what MY problems are.
Since we're discussing each others flaws, allow me to say that your problem is that you are wrong.
And just like that, the original question was answered.
A lot of people bought an ought-six because ammo was everywhere and some Old Guy told them it was The Best.
Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.
To answer your first question: My 6.5 cost the same as it's .308 and .243 counterparts on the rack next to it. My dies, brass, bullets, and powder cost exactly the same. Walmart even has factory ammo in stock for the same price as other centerfire rifle loads. It is the only 6.5mm rifle cartridge I could have done that with.
Second question: agree completely with your assessment. I subscribed to several gun rags when short magnum mania was in full swing. Even stuffy, conservative magazines like Rifle were praising them while going about the usual business of exhuming golden oldies like the 6.5 Mannlicher-Schonauer and 9.3x74R. It was at this time that I really got into tube fed lever actions.
Third question: Recoil magazine is a product intended for those who get introduced to firearms and shooting through video games, and when they decide to graduate to the real thing go out and buy an AR with 40 pounds of accessories hanging off of 40 yards of Picatinny rail. You will not find them here on a forum about Cast Boolits. Need I say more?
Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.
Peregrine,
i sent a pm your way.
My disdain for mainstream cartridges kept me from the 30-06 and .308 for a lot of years while I happily used smaller cartridges like the 22-250 & 6mm. I finally fell for both of them and would recommend either to anyone although I use neither now. To answer the OP- the 30-06 is the Easy Button!
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