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Thread: Supporting our round balls

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master
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    longbow,

    I'm not certain how tough the plastic is on the shotcup I use. I know if I pushed the amount of powder up they went to blazes. I reduced until they survived the trip down the barrel. Recovered shotcups displayed clear rifling engraved into the plastic, but all the petals stayed in tact. ????? In my case you could say that even blind mice find cheese once in a while.

  2. #62
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    littlejack,

    I went back and dug up the title of my old post. Up in the top right of this page is a search feature. I put in, "12ga round ball success", and it brought up my old post. Dig through it and therein listed are all the components and related info.

    725

  3. #63
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    Another guy that had good results using a USH (IIRC) with 0.690" in shotcup loaded kinda oddly, but successfully, was TRG3. He hasn't posted for a long time.

    He said he had good results by cutting two opposing petals off the wads! You'd think that would reduce the friction and guidance down the bore because the ball is undersize so wouldn't touch the rifling ~ only two petals taking the load and transferring twist to the ball. However, he said he got fine accuracy this way and again, it is simple so if it works, what's not to like. I like simple and I like things that work. And I like big 'ol round balls!

    I really should get me a rifled barrel!

    Longbow

  4. #64
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    Thank you all for your input.
    Seems like one combination works for some folks and their firearms. But, use that same combination in another firearm, and good luck. Sound familiar?
    "The only thing absolute in reloading is, nothing is absolute."

    Thank you 725 the information. Thats really odd, you can use the .702 ball in a wad and not be so far over pressure as to have issues.
    I'm trying another combination tomorrow. I loaded up some rounds using Remington Gun Club hulls (tapered) with the #18 Helix Cushion Driver. The previous loads were with Winchester Super-X hulls. ( straight wall)
    I tried the Rem. Gun Club loads with the WAA12 (White) wad, but the .678 ball was to loose to be held centered down the bore. There also had to have been some stripping down the barrell with the ball not big enough (or petals to thin) to push the wad petals into the rifling. Accuracy was poor, groups were "patterns".
    The #18 HCD wad is definitely snug in the Rem. tapered hull. The petals are .030 thick from top to bottom. They will definately hold the ball centered, and tight into the rifling.
    The Rem. Gun Club hulls I use for my Lyman slug loads. The slug has two different diameters. The top driving band being the largest diameter and the bottom skirt o.d. smaller. So the slug fits the cup in the WAA12 with their tapered petal thickness perfect.
    Range update tomorrow.
    Regards
    Last edited by littlejack; 01-31-2019 at 02:39 AM.

  5. #65
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    O
    Quote Originally Posted by littlejack View Post
    Cast outlaw:
    Are you saying you shoot a .440 ball out of a 12 ga. shotgun? The .729 sounds like a full size bore size, depending on the choke you're using?
    Regards
    Yes a .440 rb in a 12 gauge I’m using an 870 express with a slug berrel and the corks at soft enoulf to squish down through even a full choke but I tend to just change over the barrels

  6. #66
    Boolit Buddy Cast_outlaw's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=longbow;4561833]That is a pretty small ball/light payload for 12 ga. but I like your thinking. I hadn't considered wind corks for "sabots". I may still have some though I haven't made wine for years. I'll check that because they could make handy sabots for undersize RB's or slugs.

    They'd be a little thin walled for 0.600" RB's but may work.

    I'm thinking that if you are using your mothers sherry corks for your shooting either you don't shoot much or she drinks quite a bit! Mind you as little shooting as I am getting in lately a couple of corks would do me a while! Got to get to the range!

    Okay something else to check and try!

    They are quite a lite payload and I started trimming the pedals off used wads to put under the cork sometimes they do get down range with some authority and I can’t take all the credit for the corks my dad (god rest his sole) told me about them years ago and saved a pile I’ve got a few liquor stor bags full and no I don’t get to the range as much as I’d like or used to because I have a disabled wife and full time job as a roofing Forman some times I work 11 and 12h days so don’t get a lot of trigger time ar reloading time

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master

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    You and me both! I should be making more time for the range but working full time (more or less anyway) and the usual responsibilities plus a wife with lupus so we don't get out like we used to.

    What powder are you using under that light payload? I'd have to think only fast powders like Bullseye, 700X, Red Dot or similar would be fast enough for that light ball. Are you willing to share load data?

    I will be working up loads for the single 0.660" RB but that is close enough to some of the light BPI load data it shouldn't be too hard to do. They have some light payload high velocity data listed in their archives.

    Just noticed you are in B.C. too. Where are you located?

    There are a couple of other Cast Boolit members here in Castlegar with me BCJay and Ginsing. One day we'll get together and shoot! We've talked about it enough!

    Longbow

  8. #68
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    littlejack:

    Absolutely! there are no absolutes! Hey... wait a minute... I mean in reloading. I have one gun with 0.733" bore and one with 0.729" bore so there's a significant fit difference right there!

    I've been leaning towards a full bore or wad slug designed to crush like Brenneke and HB slugs so that I can cast for the largest bore and get good fit but that the slug will crush or wad give to allow shooting in the tighter bore too. Brenneke Classic is apparently 0.735" for that reason yet will crush to go through a full choke or work in rifled gun.

    Still working on it!

    The undersize RB in shotcup or donut wad still appeals to me... or maybe in a wine cork! I do like the simplicity and history of round balls.

    Longbow

  9. #69
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    After a long, but never long enough hunting season, plus the usual break for holidays, I'm ready to get back at the shotgun slugs. Back in September or so I had come up with a load on recommendation to use PSB buffer under a .735" round ball. It turns out that it works really well. It shot as good as anything at 50 yards, one ragged hole, but I'm still looking for those nice 100 yard groups from a rifled barrel. From recovered balls, I noticed that the bearing band was not even all the way around. How I am going to get around that, I'm not sure. One other thing was that sometimes the crimps got ripped off the hulls, which has not happened to me before while using round ball. Today I loaded 32 grains bluedot, X12x gas seal, 3 nitro cards, scoop PSB buffer, and ball. This is identical to what I used this fall, but with a reduced powder charge. The other load is the same powder charge, but with only a ballistic products light brush wad, and I used an 1/8" cork wad over the ball to get a good crimp on those. I casted these with a little harder alloy, not enough to matter. If they don't engrave evenly after trying different wad stacks, I am going to try some heat treated. I am also going to load some in a 3" hull to see if that has any effect.

  10. #70
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    msm, if you are blowing the crimps off the hulls you had best quit now and refigure. Think about the huge pressure that takes. Be safe!
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  11. #71
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    I won't post to powder charge, I will only say that it is significantly higher than 32 grains. That old "piledriver" slug data that goes up to 44 grains is not safe. I would consider 34 grains of bluedot a safe maximum of bluedot with a .735" slug in a 2 3/4" hull.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 01-31-2019 at 11:35 PM.

  12. #72
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    I agree msm! I go higher than 34 grs though with no sign of sticky extraction. I found 38 grs. to be more than enough recoil for me so dropped back to 36 grs. I did not see any pressure signs at 38 grs. but would not venture past 40 grs. of BD under the 0.735" RB anyway. Also, that was with my 0.733" bore single shot so generous bore diameter.

    The Precision Rifle load data was a bit sketchy as well in that they did not identify hull or primer except to say "New straight walled hull." I will add that as far as I remember the 610 gr. Piledriver was slightly under "standard" groove diameter which would reduce pressure somewhat.

    I have wondered why the round nose slugs and big RB's do not run over the roll crimp but so far I have not had it happen to me. I have had some torn crimps on old hulls that were not in good shape but never on hulls in reasonable shape (I tend to use them till they are a bit "crisp" sometimes). Torn crimps are just a bit of the end of the hull.

    How much did you lose? What condition were hulls?

    Longbow

  13. #73
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    Buffer is hard on hulls, and that combined with a tight fitting slug with a more than needed amount of powder did not help. These were also older gold medal hulls, some with split crimps. I did get pressure signs at 38 grains, the ejector slot on my USH shows up. I get a little dent with full power ammo anyway, but 38 grains was excessive. This was in the gold medal hull, and may have be fine in a low base federal, or a Fiocchi. If you are using cushion wads, especially in a 3" hull, you could use more powder. I should also note I use Federal 209A primers exclusively unless using a new primed hull.

    For as much shooting as I do outside of published data, I should really buy the pressure trace system. I've been saying that for how long now, I think that is what I'll do with some of my tax return. Reading dents on a shotgun hull as pressure signs is not ideal.

  14. #74
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    I haven't tried buffer but have used lots of COW. The COW seems to cushion and cradle the ball. I actually don't recall if I ever used COW under 0.735" RB's or not but I don't think so. I can see that COW or buffer could pack/swell out against the hull and he hard on things.

    I have used lots of COW in shot cups under balls but there it is contained, more or less, with slippery plastic between it and hull/bore. Never had a problem with it.

    Yes, pressure trace gear would be nice. Been thinking about it myself.

    Longbow

  15. #75
    Boolit Master


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    Made it to the range and back home. Still have all my
    extremities.
    Was a crisp 31°, so I talked myself out of wearing my
    Bermuda's.
    The load combination:
    Rem. Gun Club hull.
    30 grains of Herco.
    #18 Helix Cushion Driver wad. Wad was definitely a tight fit
    in the tapered hull.
    2 .045 riser card wads under ball.
    .678 ball weighing 477 grains. (Measures .675)
    8 point fold crimp.
    I made a scope adjustment before my first shot at 25 yards.
    5 shots fired.
    5 balls into 1 .75", with 4 balls in 1.25". The first shot was the
    odd ball. "pun intended". Don't know if it was the scope
    settling in, the clean bore, or the cold barrell. Or maybe the
    shooter?
    Moved the target back to 50 yards. 10 shots fired.
    The ten shots had two separate groups, 4 inch centers apart.
    The first 5 ball group measured 2.5". The second 5 ball
    group measured 4".
    That looks suspiciously like the scope mount may have
    shifted after the fifth shot, starting a separate group. So, I am
    adding one D&T hole in the receiver to lock the mount down
    secure.
    Of all the wads I collected, there was not one petal missing,
    and all the powder seals were all intact. (No blow by)
    The balls did set back, causing some of the card spacers
    under the ball to be pushed into the cup base. The card
    spacers need to be something more than what they are.
    Maybe polypropylene or equal to that to support the ball.

    Longbow
    I had thought about getting a full bore ball mold. There are
    so many components to experiment with. I really want to get
    these ball and cup loads to work.

    I read where two of our posters can get one hole groups at
    50 yards. It can't get any better than that. To me, that is
    amazing accuracy.
    Regards
    Last edited by littlejack; 02-01-2019 at 04:58 AM.

  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I'll quantify what I mean when I say "one ragged hole". In reality, it is probably more about 1.5" CTC. Still very good at 50 yards with any slug, and can be done with a ball in a rifled barrel.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    i haven't tried buffer but have used lots of cow. The cow seems to cushion and cradle the ball. I actually don't recall if i ever used cow under 0.735" rb's or not but i don't think so.
    cow?

    Attachment 235046

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy Ginsing's Avatar
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    Cream of wheat

  19. #79
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    msm:
    I definitely agree, that is very good shooting. Hoping I can
    work up 2" - 2.5" consistantly with the wad and ball
    combination. Or "down to" depending how you look at it. Lol

  20. #80
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    Petander:
    Lol

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check