Abandoning a manufacturer

[Cheeto303]

On Black friday 2018 my wife and I went out deer hunting. She had her Gradpa's Savage 99 300 Savage,I had my dads Savage 99 300 savage.We had been having a rough season this year as the so called "Sportsmen" that hunt down in the bottoms that we can't hunt shot 27 deer on opening day of modern gun season. It sounded horrible. All that in the first hour and a half. Anyhow back to our hunt. A nice 8 pointer walked up to within 20 feet of my blind. A perfect broadside shot. I raised my favorite deer rifle up,centered the front sight on the heart/lung area,slipped the safety off,squeezed trigger and "CLICK". It was the loudest click i'd ever heard. The buck heard it also and vanished. I worked the lever and retrieved the offending cartridge and inspected the primer. Perfectly centered nice deep dent in the primer. When we got home I went out back to our range and fired the remaining 11 rounds of Remington 150 Gr Core lokts without a hitch. I new I should have taken my reloads. My wife was p'od,she called Remingtons customer service and told them what had happened. Within 4 days a UPS truck showed up with a box from Remington. It contained 2 new boxes of 300 Savage ammo. That was great customer service. However I will shoot it on the range, reload it and then hunt with it. And yes I did give my wife 1 box of ammo. She is very good at calling manufacturers and getting the situation rectified. You wouldn't believe all the stuff Limbsaver sent because one of their slings broke on a deer hunt sending her Tikka T3 into the mud. It was amazing that it and the Nikon didn't get damaged. It was a good thing that we had Grandpas Savage 99 in the Jeep. She still got a doe that day. Limbsaver sent a box of goodies worth at least $250.00. She says that when you call manufactures up ya got to sweet talk them and tell them how much you love their stuff but how disappointed you were and how your hunt was ruined.She does this all the time,It's her job. We get lots of free stuff!!!

[crankycalico]

If that's what you want (30-30 bolt action)- a Savage 340 or Rem 788 will cost less than converting a m700.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I hear about those guns all the time. Never can seem to find one that isn't missing extractors, ejectors, and magazine.

Lots of folks on here claim to have converted a model 700 to use 30-30. Just have NEVER seen hide nor hair of these mythical rifles.

[roysha]

Well now, given the difficulty of altering the REM 700 bolt face to accept the 30-30 rim and the difficulty in making the magazine feed reliably, I would like to see the threads that discuss this conversion. Unlike a Mauser type bolt which is relatively simple to open up to a given diameter and then altering the extractor to accept the new case, the REM with it's "three rings of steel" and proprietary extractor system makes for a LOT of alteration, most of which, while not brain surgery, certainly is much more complicated than the Mauser style. I suspect that the feeding situation would be a bit problematic even with a Mauser style action. Of course it can be done, but the cost, I shudder to think what a competent gunsmith would charge. On second thought, I don't know if a competent gunsmith would even tackle that job without lots and lots of caveats.

Rim diameter 30-30 = .506 and rim thickness = .063
Rim diameter 30-06 = .473 and rim thickness = .049
Rim diameter MAG = .532 and rim thickness = .532


I'm curious as why you would want this. Personally, I can see no practical reason for it. I realize "practical" and "need" should never be used in the same sentence with "guns" but......... However to each his own and if that is what you must have than go for it and keep us posted as to how it goes.

By the by, on GB there are 4 or 5 Savage 340s in 30-30. As far as the REM 788, the 30-30 was rather uncommon since most folks felt anything the 30-30 could do, the 308 could do better and not a lot of 30-30s were sold.

[Shawlerbrook]

Ruger, Henry, Kimber

So due have to buy a Sako today to get a good gun. Are there any good manufacturers left in the US?

[Harter66]

Well poo
I wrote a beautiful summation of all of the whining , peeing , complaining , crying , comparing , male donkery of the last year sighting examples from my own stash of the best and worst .

Buy cheap , spend a little time , mostly it does what it's supposed to .
Buy a name and we'll maybe you'll get what it was made on maybe you won't .
I've bought around brands . Cost per value mostly drives those choices .
I hate fixing tools before I can use them . If I can buy them 2 fer 1 and get 150% of the life or use I'm ahead . If I know I have to fuss with 1 in 3 to make it work or do a wash out it's ok by me especially when it costs half .

I have a knock off Winchester and Browning . Sure I had to barrel the Rossi 92' but I found a great smith that can and will make parts if absolutely necessary and every job is as well as it can be done every time .

Of 40+ RCBS and Lyman moulds I have 1 of each that are small . I bought the Lyman on purpose and keep the RCBS in case I get a fat 270 some day because the .272 nose doesn't fit even the brand new 7 mm for beans .

I don't buy Chevy's , Ford's seem to follow me around . I really wanted to be a Dodge guy ........ Whatever the Nissan's and Isuzurolet we're pretty good to me .

If we pick at a sore long enough it'll scar . If it stays screwed up it'll cost enough that the bottom line will have to move .
Don't like it don't buy it . If it doesn't come in the options you want find something that does .
If it doesn't fit swap it , sell it or send it back .
If the vendor/maker won't make good on standards write to the top floor . If that doesn't work write a full post with copies .

Please stop with the "They hurt my feelings because they won't make my production line a special order a custom one off " . That's like expecting Mauser 2018 to fix your 1916 DWM Gew 98 .

[sharps4590]

Lee dies are mostly for cutting or grinding on to make them work for something else. I have a hard time grinding on RCBS dies because of expense...sometimes. CH-4D dies are nearly always perfect.

Remington. I never was impressed with them. Only thing Remington I use is their 30-06 brass to form into something else. It is about the best I've found for that. Factory ammo? I couldn't tell you a thing about any of it because most of my shooters haven't had ammo made since before WWII and some before WWI. Browning, same as Remington....no use for them. I did have a soft spot for the old Winchester's. The only Winchester in my toy box now is Dad's Mod. 74, 22 LR. It is accurate. I also had a soft spot for the old Marlin's, they were good. By old I mean pre-1960 and pre-WWII is better. I might have to dink with the old rifles I buy but they're mostly over 80 years old, I expect to and, I rather enjoy doing it. I'd guess 95% of the time it's precious little dinking with them I have to do. When I get finished they will shoot with most modern rifles and exude a class and time of craftsmanship that simply isn't available today in a production firearm. That and it beats having to do the same dinking with a brand new rifle.

It's all a matter of taste and experience, regardless of the product. I don't like Fords because the wife and I have each had new ones and both were literally lemons....and that can happen with any make....and I know it but, I ain't buyin' another Ford, ever. Ford lemon's seem to seek me out.

[RU shooter]

If you got your heart set on a 30/30 Rem 700 a close option is to chamber one in 30Rem it's twin without a rim

[Texas by God]

Bubba Gun Company (me) produced this 30-30 bolt-action. It ain't no Remington but it shoots as good as one. As stated above, getting the 30-30 to work in a model 700 action would be a butt whooping.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[roysha]

TbG: DANG!! Just what I need, another project!!! Did you have any issues with the feeding? I tried a couple of rounds in a 98, just to see if it would feed out of the magazine, and I had "nosing down" problems when trying to feed from the magazine.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup its more like the line that cranks out Winchesters super grades. Never was a true custom shop. I don't know of a single rifle manufacture until you get up in the price category of Dakotas ect that will do chamberings that they don't catalog. Ask Winchester, savage, Mossberg, ruger, browning or about anyone to even change a barrel on your 243 to another short action round and there going to tell you to go see a gunsmith. Something as radical as machining a bolt to fits something they don't chamber like a 3030 isn't going to happen.

even 25+yrs ago, remingturd custom shop wasnt exactly a place of customs. if what you want isnt on their "build" list, they wont make it.

[FergusonTO35]

A few years ago, Savage did advertise that they would chamber a new rifle to any SAAMI cartridge you wanted for a fee, as long as it was compatible with the action.

[Steve E]

I had my problem with Redding, I bought a set of Redding 280 Remington Ack Imp dies and from the first case it would scratch the brass pretty bad so I called them up and they said send it in (my dime). Sent it in, got it back with the explanation that no problem found, it is within spec's. Still scratched so called them, sent it back and was returned with exact same explanation. Finally sold the set with an explanation to the new owner and bought a new set that hasn't had a problem. I have two other sets of Redding dies that have had no problems at all. I guess even a good Company lets one slip by every now and then but they should at least stand buy their product.

Steve......

[David LaPell]

I have to say that most of the newer gun companies have soured me. I have no use for what I see being put out by Remington. I have heard and seen too many horror stories from my local gunsmith of guns he's gotten back only to send them back to the factory, then get them back still having issues. I looked at a couple of new 870 shotguns recently, and I think that they're being lubricated with sand, the actions were gritty and didn't feel at all like any 870's I remember.

Marlin, I can't say how sad it makes me to see what happened to them. I saw a 1895 Stainless gun on the rack at the local gun shop lately in .45-70, it was new. When I looked down the barrel with a light, there was almost no rifling, you couldn't even feel it with your finger. They happened to have a JM 1895 next to it, blued, the difference was amazing with the rifling, it was a mid 1990's gun, and the fit of the wood was like night and day to the stainless gun. It was sad to see the older example and how much better it was.
I have been hearing of people having more and more issues with Savage lately. My brother in law got an Axis in .270 and he couldn't hit anything with it, the accuracy was horrendous, and then he found out why. After he sent it to Savage, they found that about halfway down the barrel, no rifling for about an inch or so, not there, never was there. They sent the gun back to him, and he said that even though they fixed it, the accuracy was still lousy. One of his friends had bought an Axis, not sure the caliber, but that one was having trouble too and the factory hadn't been able to remedy it. I have heard of problems with their semi auto .17 HMR from a few folks, mostly trying to find some brand of ammo that will cycle.

I haven't seen much from the new Winchester guns, I know I can't afford them. I remember buying my first one when I was 18, a new Model 94 for $249 in 1994. Now that gun new is over $1,000. I would rather track down an original for that price. I do like the looks of the new 1873 but haven't seen one up close to say if I would spend the money.

I have also heard Thompson Center has quit with all their traditional style blackpowder guns, like the Hawken, the Renegade, etc. I haven't seen that personally, but if that's the case, I'm done with them. I was never a fan of inlines, and those of us that do shoot the percussion and flintlock guns would like to have somewhere to go that doesn't rely on just the Italian companies.

[jonp]

So due have to buy a Sako today to get a good gun. Are there any good manufacturers left in the US?

I have several Savage Axis rifles and all are MOA or better. Wife's 243 turned in a .85in group with my first handloads and all for around $200. I don't know what you classify as "good" but that's plenty good enough for the likes of me for that amount of money.

People need to get a grip. Every manu has a lemon get through. The real test of whether to stay with a company or not is how they respond and in my experience the firearms/reloading industry overall is second to none in customer service.

[jonp]

Lorcin. I have a 380 of their's that never worked right and I'll never buy another

[jonp]

No kidding

[RU shooter]

Lorcin. I have a 380 of their's that never worked right and I'll never buy another

Lol well it is a lorcin after all . Did you expect it to be trouble free ....

[oldblinddog]

I have used Remington 700’s my entire life. I have them that date from mid 70’s to 2017 vintage. They are all finely made and shoot less than moa. I would become a commie before I would own a Savage or a Browning. They are both poorly designed junk. And for the 10/22 shooters, Remington Thunderbolts are the best ammo ever. I shoot them in my 510 single shot! Just sold my 788 .30-30.

All true!

[Texas by God]

Roysha I got lucky I guess. I've been 98 Mauser free for too long so I have none to try. This 1916 small ring worked with just a rim stop and a feed ramp polishing. I discovered the other day it won't feed Win Silvertips but Lee's fp boolit trio and and Speer JFP work perfectly.

[GregLaROCHE]

TbG: DANG!! Just what I need, another project!!! Did you have any issues with the feeding? I tried a couple of rounds in a 98, just to see if it would feed out of the magazine, and I had "nosing down" problems when trying to feed from the magazine.

If someone wants to build a bolt action .30-30, why not start with a Mosin that already uses rimed cartridges?