Abandoning a manufacturer

[Remmy4477]

I looked at a new Remlin 1894 at the last gunshow we had. Cheap looking thing almost like a china cap gun. Wood looked fake and fit was awful, blueing looked painted on. $1000 plus price tag.
Same with a few of the new winchesters I saw, just cheap looking careful how you hold it might break upon firing type of things.

I like Marlins but not the new ones. Oldest I have is a 1952 model 39, excellent fit and finish. My 99 1894 and 2000 1895cb are both decent rifles with personality and still well built.

A lot of good companys are dying off, changing hands, downsizing and ect. The dollar has became more important than any item made, cheap throw away stuff nowadays!

[fatnhappy]

I agree about Remington. Until they resume actually HOT BLUEING their guns, I won't buy a new one - and probably won't even then. I finally sent my 870 Express out and had it parkerized, so I could keep it from rusting, just sitting in the air conditioned house! That black oxide finish they use should be illegal to apply to a firearm.

Remington will never hot blue in Ilion again. The power plant that delivered steam to them refused to renew their contract about 5 years ago. There were a few articles about it at the time which specifically referenced the steam was used for hot blueing.

[Shingle]

I lost all use for remington with the recall on the model 700 trigger,you have to send the thing to a guy in Minnesota to get it inspected and stamped. I also have no use for a 870 since I had a shell come loose while i was reloading the mag tube, the shell went under the lifter,the gun was then a dead stick I had to go to my side arm. This happened at a VERY bad moment.

[lead-1]

I like my Remingtons but most are 25 years or older. I bought a 700 SPS .223 with the Hogue stock that everyone was saying were junk rifles. I brought it home, cleaned it, mounted a scope and sighted it in and it shoots sub one inch groups at 100 yards with my hand loads or the Remington 62 grain ammo I bought. I guess I can't complain about Remington, YMMV.

[RU shooter]

I like my Remingtons but most are 25 years or older. I bought a 700 SPS .223 with the Hogue stock that everyone was saying were junk rifles. I brought it home, cleaned it, mounted a scope and sighted it in and it shoots sub one inch groups at 100 yards with my hand loads or the Remington 62 grain ammo I bought. I guess I can't complain about Remington, YMMV.

Again just like a woman , even the not so pretty ones perform as well as the pretty ones it's what's inside that matters

[TimD]

I purchased new firearms from Henry, S&W, Glock, and Ruger last fall. Had problems with the Ruger. To their credit they cheerfully finished reaming the cylinder and replaced the trigger group in my SP-101. That first 327 magnum round out of a bad chamber locked the cylinder and trigger. Glad it cost me nothing more than time.

I am very happy with the Henry and the Glock. I guess I got what I paid for. Although I did not consider the cost of the Ruger to be inexpensive. It will be a very long time before I consider buying a new firearm from Ruger. The quality of the S&W shield is acceptable, given the cost, and function has been flawless so far. The accuracy of the Henry surprised me.

I found a Savage 340 at the LGS recently but won’t know how well it shoots until things thaw out. There is a new Ruger No. 1 in 30-30 for sale on gun broker, also some Winchester model 54’s.

I used to shop for the lowest price. Now I am suspicious of products that do not cost enough. I would much prefer manufacturers keep their standards high and increase prices appropriately rather than cutting corners to increase profit.

[SteveK]

Anyone else just said hell with a company and avoided all those products from then on? Ive finally hit my end with Remington today.

First they recommend me to an authorized center to rebarrel a rifle for me. A center that DOESNT understand what "rebarrel a rifle" means. Or just doesn't know how to do that.

Then the custom shop, which claims it cant take a regular production rifle off the floor like a 700 bdl and slap a 7x57 barrel on it so I would have the features I want on it. And they CANT do a rifle in 30-30 because the cartridge rim is "beyond them".

I was thinking on a 1911 if my rifle project fell through, and I was looking at Remington because they have one I actuallylike the looks of. but not anymore.

It is a truly sad reality you've experienced from a company who played a large roll in pioneering the gun industry. IMO, Remington is heading down a gloomy path to it's own demise much the same as Colt has done and that which Browning seems very close to doing as well. Corporate arrogance, poor quality and customer insensitivity are hallmarks of a failing company. Brand loyalty will only carry a company so far before its customers raise their hand high in the air and extend that middle finger of disgust to show them what they think. They then promptly spin on their heels and run to embrace a competitor's, better, product and service. This happened to IBM and it should happen to AT&T (although they have more money than god.)

I vote with my feet - always, and every one here should do the same. It's the only way we have to reward good performance, service and product. Real Americans don't just buy American.... Real Americans buy what the want.

[HangFireW8]

Anyone else just said hell with a company and avoided all those products from then on? Ive finally hit my end with Remington today.

First they recommend me to an authorized center to rebarrel a rifle for me. A center that DOESNT understand what "rebarrel a rifle" means. Or just doesn't know how to do that.

Then the custom shop, which claims it cant take a regular production rifle off the floor like a 700 bdl and slap a 7x57 barrel on it so I would have the features I want on it. And they CANT do a rifle in 30-30 because the cartridge rim is "beyond them".

I was thinking on a 1911 if my rifle project fell through, and I was looking at Remington because they have one I actuallylike the looks of. but not anymore.

You already know from a previous thread that you need to find a good custom gunsmith that is likely not listed as a Remington parts swapper.

But you still want to get angry at a mass manufacturer for not doing a CUSTOM rifle job for you, or recommending someone who can?

Well, go right ahead. If you'd rather waste your energy, time and anger going down a blind alley, I'm sure I can't help you any more.

[FergusonTO35]

I used to shop for the lowest price. Now I am suspicious of products that do not cost enough. I would much prefer manufacturers keep their standards high and increase prices appropriately rather than cutting corners to increase profit.

This, 100%. Sadly, Ruger seems to be heading down this road. I am very glad that Henry keeps their standards high, and aren't trying to get product out the door above all else.

[Texas by God]

I lost all use for remington with the recall on the model 700 trigger,you have to send the thing to a guy in Minnesota to get it inspected and stamped. I also have no use for a 870 since I had a shell come loose while i was reloading the mag tube, the shell went under the lifter,the gun was then a dead stick I had to go to my side arm. This happened at a VERY bad moment.

The only modification the 870 has ever needed is a slotted carrier for fumbles like you mentioned. I've owned and used at least one 870 since 1975 and have never experienced this. My bedside 870 Express was a little stiff at first but a few cases of AA broke it in. Yes, the Wingmasters are superior in every way. A used one is worth getting. If I need a new Remington, Savage, Ruger or whatever I'll get it and see how it goes. I haven't quit on anyone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[EDG]

A firearms factory nor any factory is designed to baby sit a single individuals whims.
Want custom? There are plenty of custom gunsmiths.

I was a manufacturing engineer for more than 40 years. We turned out products by the thousands. Just one individual sale is nothing compared to the daily production.
Say you want a Mercedes limo with a 3 speed stick shift? Sorry.
Want a 747 Boeing with radial engines? They don't make them.
Want a .30-30 in a 700 Rem? It was not designed for it. It might cost $100,000 to re-engineer a 700 Rem to function with a .30-30 and parts of it would look like a 788 Rem. So if you really want to beat up Remington or any large company because they cannot cater to your whims you are just showing your lack of knowledge of the cost of special orders.
What you want is your arm chair dream. It costs you nothing but time to dream. Some times the dreams are not realistic.
The people in a factory can do what you want usually but you don't really want to pay the price. Sure Mercedes can put a 3 speed in a limo. But they do not do it on the line. Offer them another $100000 and they might do it. Otherwise you get a production line car like everyone else.

[crankycalico]

A firearms factory nor any factory is designed to baby sit a single individuals whims.
Want custom? There are plenty of custom gunsmiths.

I was a manufacturing engineer for more than 40 years. We turned out products by the thousands. Just one individual sale is nothing compared to the daily production.
Say you want a Mercedes limo with a 3 speed stick shift? Sorry.
Want a 747 Boeing with radial engines? They don't make them.
Want a .30-30 in a 700 Rem? It was not designed for it. It might cost $100,000 to re-engineer a 700 Rem to function with a .30-30 and parts of it would look like a 788 Rem. So if you really want to beat up Remington or any large company because they cannot cater to your whims you are just showing your lack of knowledge of the cost of special orders.
What you want is your arm chair dream. It costs you nothing but time to dream. Some times the dreams are not realistic.
The people in a factory can do what you want usually but you don't really want to pay the price. Sure Mercedes can put a 3 speed in a limo. But they do not do it on the line. Offer them another $100000 and they might do it. Otherwise you get a production line car like everyone else.

1. after I asked about a rebarrel on a Remington rifle, they had me contact a REPAIR CENTER in my state. The REPAIR CENTER CANT PUT A NEW BARREL ON A RIFLE MADE BY REMINGTON.

If the FACTORY RUN CUSTOM RIFLE SHOP refuses to rebarrel a rifle for a customer, and the authorized repair center CANT or DOESNT KNOW HOW.... then how does a customer have any hope of having a rifle with a bad barrel fixed?

2. Remington Custom shop is NOT a custom shop. All they CAN or WILL do is make what is essentially a limited production item TO ONE PARTS LIST. Sort of like saying "yeah I can build you a custom AR-15. But its going to be mil-spec parts to the original mil spec circa 1980 and nothing altered from that mil spec"

3. Remington was able to make rifles chambered in 7.62x54R and .303 British. As a result it CAN be done.
There are SEVERAL cartridges that have a rim diameter close to 30 wcf currently being made in bolt action rifles.

[EDG]

Yes everything you want can be done. You just don't understand what you are asking. Basically factories need drawings and proven processes for what they are going to build. That means a designer has to design the gun and test it for a simulated life time of use. Then the factory needs the cutting tools and fixtures.
Yes Remington made .303s about 100 years ago. So? The recipe is gone. All the workers are dead and the tooling was scrapped. New tooling to make a Remington Lee bolt gun might cost a million dollars to set up the line. But you only want one? Well running a manual machine might take a year to make all of the parts. Are you willing to pay $100000 for your custom rifle.
Get on a plane and walk into Remington with $100k and you might get your rifle and you might not. For them to make a profit your one of a kind .30-30 might cost $150k.

PS I have owned a 788 Rem in 30-30 since 1970 or so. They are still around. I have owned 3 Savage bolt action .30-30s. I still own one. Perhaps you need to look harder. None of mine had much use before I bought them and they worked perfectly. Right now you can probably find one on an auction site for less than $300. It will be something you can actually shoot while looking for your unicorn rifle.

PS 2
Remington made the M700 in 7X57 in the BDL Classic model. Just buy one of those unfired from a collector if you must have a 7X57 .

PS3 I bought (2) 700 Rem about 1969. Once a .222 and one a .30-06.
When i bought them I wrote a letter to Remington for a parts price list.
I used the parts price list to order a .222 Rem Mag magazine box and follower.
The longer magazine permitted loading my .222 ammo out close to the lands.

I noticed to get a barrel then that Remington required you to send the complete rifle back. They would install a new barrelled receiver assy with a new serial number and return the complete rifle to you.

The Remington manufacturing process is set up to give a matching blue job on both the receiver and the barrel.
To do it your way would result in a mismatch of the bluing or they would have to rebarrel your receiver. Then drill and tap and then roll mark the barrel. Then polish and finally blue the barrel. Then they have to route the barreled action back for reassembly. Some where along the line it has to be proof fired.

1. after I asked about a rebarrel on a Remington rifle, they had me contact a REPAIR CENTER in my state. The REPAIR CENTER CANT PUT A NEW BARREL ON A RIFLE MADE BY REMINGTON.

If the FACTORY RUN CUSTOM RIFLE SHOP refuses to rebarrel a rifle for a customer, and the authorized repair center CANT or DOESNT KNOW HOW.... then how does a customer have any hope of having a rifle with a bad barrel fixed?

2. Remington Custom shop is NOT a custom shop. All they CAN or WILL do is make what is essentially a limited production item TO ONE PARTS LIST. Sort of like saying "yeah I can build you a custom AR-15. But its going to be mil-spec parts to the original mil spec circa 1980 and nothing altered from that mil spec"

3. Remington was able to make rifles chambered in 7.62x54R and .303 British. As a result it CAN be done.
There are SEVERAL cartridges that have a rim diameter close to 30 wcf currently being made in bolt action rifles.

[georgerkahn]

RCBS left a bad taste in my mouth when I got stung by their Green Machine....man that was nearly 40 years ago. Never bought another press from them until I git a used RC about 8 years ago.

The only other case is my local John Deere dealer. Regrettably I have an older JD tractor so kind of stuck there. If/when I upgrade, I will go elsewhere.

dverna - I was faced with a similar paradigm, with me being remiss if I didn't note that our local JD dealership has a collection of parts for just about any/every JD made since Fred Flintstone owned one --- albeit (like pretty much all JD stuff) one pays a premium, plus, price to buy. I stopped in a Kubota dealership on a whim, as it's next door to the shop my truck was in for service... and -- three years, it's been -- never looked back. I have yet not to be awed with the way I am treated by the "orange" people; their most generous pricing, and apparent concept that I am their best customer -- although I bought but one tractor from them.

Sadly -- my "take" on this thread, for me it is more the firm/people who represent the product, than the product itself.

geo

[murf205]

So due have to buy a Sako today to get a good gun. Are there any good manufacturers left in the US?

In my experience with Ruger Americans, they feed, function and are very accurate. Now.....I never said they are as pretty as a picture, but when you shoulder one, they feel proper, to me at least. But I am an old tang safety guy too. It appears that is what factory rifles ( AR's) will fed to us in the future unless you have a lot of $ to put on one.

[murf205]

Roysha I got lucky I guess. I've been 98 Mauser free for too long so I have none to try. This 1916 small ring worked with just a rim stop and a feed ramp polishing. I discovered the other day it won't feed Win Silvertips but Lee's fp boolit trio and and Speer JFP work perfectly.

Was the bolt face an '06 size to start with? I've got an FN 30-06 with Monkey Ward stamped on the barrel and you have my wheels turning.

[crankycalico]

Im starting to think that people don't understand that its not rocket science to do this. Its even worse, almost insulting, that people think its going to cost 100K to have a new barrel popped in, and the bolt head cut for 30-30

[RU shooter]

Im starting to think that people don't understand that its not rocket science to do this. Its even worse, almost insulting, that people think its going to cost 100K to have a new barrel popped in, and the bolt head cut for 30-30

Ok then go get that barrel screwed on at the local gunsmith . And sure open up that Rem 700 bolt face .It would be easy enough and have a sako style extractor installed . Don't mean it's gonna feed worth a hoot or maybe it will?? But it's you that's gonna have to roll those dice . Remington sure ain't and you honestly can't blame them well at least I wouldn't .

[EDG]

Calico if it is so easy why don't you do it yourself?
Get yourself a block of steel, a file and a dremel tool and fix your own rifle. But first you need to tell us how you are going to make a 700 Rem bolt headspace a rimmed cartridge and still function.
You need a non-rotating extractor and a rim stop for the .30-30.
The 700 has neither. So what does your design look like?
Are you going to completely redesign the 700 bolt head, extractor and ejector? Surely if it is so easy you can do it in a few hours.

Im starting to think that people don't understand that its not rocket science to do this. Its even worse, almost insulting, that people think its going to cost 100K to have a new barrel popped in, and the bolt head cut for 30-30

[Texas by God]

Was the bolt face an '06 size to start with? I've got an FN 30-06 with Monkey Ward stamped on the barrel and you have my wheels turning.

Yes, the 1916 was originally 7x57mm(.473") bolt face. We all call it the 06 case head- but the 8x57mm started it all. Sorry for the 8mm plug