Lyman Spartan compound linkage conversion?

[EDG]

It seems you are no longer an active loader but you want to question what a serious loader is. If you just reload ordinary ammo, especially pistol ammo you may never notice your press springing. I tested my Bair C press against a1st generation Rock Chucker with the same machine gun fired 30-06 brass using the same sizing die. The C press sprang open .007. The RC only .002. If you are happy with that sort of performance you are not a serious reloader. I respond to a lot of reloaders questions on this and other sites. One of the most common problems is guys discover at the range that some rounds will chamber and some will not. This is often caused by using a light duty press and rushing through the sizing process without verifying alk cases will chamber. I bet I have answered that question 100 times.
Yes I could form .30-06 to .25-06 and to .243 but the shoulder would vary in location with the C press. So would yours unless you checked it and sized the brass several passes. I know because I have seen the shoulder location variations. I once reformed 100 new .303 Brit cases with a Rockchucker and I easily got .002 variation just due to variations in lube and sizing speed and number of passes. I know exactly what happened and why because I measured the head to shoulder datum length of each and every one with my caliper. There would have been far worse variation using a C press. Using the Rockchucker I was able to size each case 2 passes and get them all exactly the same to within the resolution of my calipers and as checked in the rifle. I used the stripped bolt and chambered each of the 100 cases. Each case had a light one finger drag when rotating the bolt closed. I find that cases formed with that uniformity are likely to last longer and are more accurate.

I'd love to but, as I said in my first post in this thread, I cannot. It's a very old mod (some 20+ years ago) and I never made a digital photo of it after I got into digital cameras, it just wasn't that important to me.

Right now all of my loading gear, and old paper photos, are in a storage locker and I couldn't possibly get to them even if I knew which box it's in.

That said, I'd still like to know what criteria you use to qualify "serious" reloaders. ??

D

[squidtamer]

hehe as the OP, I feel like I should go pop some popcorn, poke this thread full of 'serious reloaders' like a hornets nest and Sit back!!

But seriously now. Thanks everyone.
Yes, it's NOT a O frame! I have a couple of nice RockChucker's, a Pacific, etc. for that kind of work. I was _NEVER_ worried about deflection with this beast. even at .005 (as mentioned by a previous poster on a similar press; I think I recall this one deflects .00[1|2] with .303 or .30-06 doing full size) I would find that in measured OAL issues later. ALWAYS ALWAYS measure everything before the primer goes in and the neck gets sealed. But you folks know that so .. preaching to the choir here I'm sure.
Sure this thing COULD do .300 Winmags, but why?? Probably would have snapped the handle off (again!) trying it. Handle to linkage was the weak link (heh) on these. That and the crappy glue holding the bike handle cover on.


I was asking here to:
-make my life easier, as after multiple surgeries over the years, things ain't what they used to be even on small stuff.
-Save me a couple hours of 'plotting to take over the world', I mean 'plotting to drill a couple of holes' to give me something to do while I attempt to stay out of the wife's way.
-figure out a cool/neat modified press for some light duty work for the kids. And the daughter that would use it (sorry fellas she's taken) has range of motion shoulder problems after a couple bad falls in equestrian competitions. But, nostalgia is all the rage, eh? Guess I can understand wanting something from the old man, as I still have a couple early Pacific and Herters tools from my old man. And she mentioned wanting a C press for the truck to use out at the range while working up loads.

But seriously I was just hoping someone had done this themselves on here, and save me a little time. Maybe I can swap it for a modern thingy with compound leverage, or sell it for a couple of $.

[1hole]

But I was just hoping someone had done this themselves on here, and save me a little time. Maybe I can swap it for a modern thingy with compound leverage, or sell it for a couple of $[/I].

Your question about the feasibility of converting an old Spartan to compound linkage is what I was answering. I assure you the concept is valid and easily doable and can be a fun project for a home shop hobbyist metal worker. Wish I had at least one photo to show you how I did mine but, alas .... guess I'm not serious enough to understand how hard it is to do?

I agree the original bike grip isn't ideal so I bored a hole into a golf ball and epoxied it to the handle. (I KNEW there had to be something useful that could be done with golf balls!)

[squidtamer]

I agree the original bike grip isn't ideal so I bored a hole into a golf ball and epoxied it to the handle. (I KNEW there had to be something useful that could be done with golf balls!)

I must not be very serious either, spending an hour on here a day when I could be casting boolits!

I think I shot a hole in a couple of golf balls with an old Russian long until one was straight-ish and bolted it on, LOL. Tried to paint the ball red as I recall, to match the bike grip, but the paint didn't stick well. should have sanded it and used plastic paint I guess.

[1hole]

Squid I think your compact and light ol' Spartan, modified or not, would probably do what your daughter desires quite well. But, DO change that shoot-up grip!

Grip ... wish I'd had a pool ball, think it's closer to the ideal size for a standard press than my golf ball solution. BUT, golf balls seem perfect on Lee's very small and light "Reloader" press and it's a compound too. I find it GREAT for use at the range, you might want to consider that for the lady.

(I also have one of Lee's neet little hand presses but don't recommend it to anyone, it's just too clumsy to use very much.)

[squidtamer]

Squid I think your compact and light ol' Spartan, modified or not, would probably do what your daughter desires quite well. But, DO change that shoot-up grip!

Grip ... wish I'd had a pool ball, think it's closer to the ideal size for a standard press than my golf ball solution. BUT, golf balls seem perfect on Lee's very small and light "Reloader" press and it's a compound too. I find it GREAT for use at the range, you might want to consider that for the lady.

(I also have one of Lee's neet little hand presses but don't recommend it to anyone, it's just too clumsy to use very much.)

Yeah I think a new handle end IS in order. And maybe a scrubbing and maybe a coat of paint.

I have a lee loader thing somewhere. neat toy, fun for plinking, NOT a serious reloading tool. Oh it can make fine, repeatable ammo but it's not a micrometer based seating tool to be sure.

[EDG]

Come to think of it I own a Harrell's magnum size benchrest press complete with compound linkage. Like the die cast aluminum presses that are shown when you google "broken press" I do not consider it suitable for heavy duty use.
The Harrell's press is mostly used by bench rest shooters but it is only fit for neck sizing and seating bullets.

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/pr...eloading-press

[1hole]

I have a lee loader thing somewhere. neat toy, fun for plinking, NOT a serious reloading tool. Oh it can make fine, repeatable ammo but it's not a micrometer based seating tool to be sure.

Do you mean the original Lee "Loader" thing, i.e. the hammer operated hand die system? I still have a couple of those but only keep them for historical value, haven't used either one in decades.

Lee's "Reloader" is an alum alloy C press, small but astonishingly strong. I get 2 1/2 - 3 thou spring in my RC II when FL sizing for my .30-06 but too little stretch to even measure with either of my little Reloaders; that astonished me too. I checked it with the same FL die and shell holder, die adjusted to obtain the same headspace length, using the same case lube/application, and on the same lot of my own fired Remington cases while using a precision dial indicator reading in tenths.

NOTE to the world: I'm not by any means saying those little presses are "stronger" than a massive iron body press, only that within its strength limits Lee's cast alum alloy is much less elastic than cast iron.

IF I'd had the Reloader presses first I probably wouldn't have even thought of converting my old Spar-T to compound leverage. BUT - it was fun to do and I use it far more now than before.

[1hole]

I have a lee loader thing somewhere. neat toy, fun for plinking, NOT a serious reloading tool. Oh it can make fine, repeatable ammo but it's not a micrometer based seating tool to be sure.

Do you mean the Lee "Loader" thing, i.e. the hammer operated hand die system? I still have a couple of those but only keep them for historical value, haven't used either one in decades.

Lee's "Reloader" is an alum alloy C press, small but astonishingly strong. I get 2 1/2 - 3 thou spring in my RC II when FL sizing for my .30-06 but too little stretch to even measure with either of my little Reloaders; that astonished me too. I checked it with the same FL die and shell holder, die adjusted to obtain the same headspace length, using the same case lube/application, and on the same lot of my own fired Remington cases while using a precision dial indicator reading in tenths.

NOTE to the world: I'm not by any means saying those little presses are "stronger" than a massive iron body press, only that within its strength limits Lee's cast alum alloy is much less elastic than cast iron.

IF I'd had the Reloader presses first I probably wouldn't have even thought of converting my old Spar-T to compound leverage. BUT - it was fun to do and I use it far more now than before.

[EDG]

You guys need to review your materials properties.
Cast iron is pretty much the gold standard for rigid press frames.
Aluminum is about like a spring. The term is modulus of elasticity and aluminum yields much easier than cast iron.

Do you mean the Lee "Loader" thing, i.e. the hammer operated hand die system? I still have a couple of those but only keep them for historical value, haven't used either one in decades.

Lee's "Reloader" is an alum alloy C press, small but astonishingly strong. I get 2 1/2 - 3 thou spring in my RC II when FL sizing for my .30-06 but too little stretch to even measure with either of my little Reloaders; that astonished me too. I checked it with the same FL die and shell holder, die adjusted to obtain the same headspace length, using the same case lube/application, and on the same lot of my own fired Remington cases while using a precision dial indicator reading in tenths.

NOTE to the world: I'm not by any means saying those little presses are "stronger" than a massive iron body press, only that within its strength limits Lee's cast alum alloy is much less elastic than cast iron.

IF I'd had the Reloader presses first I probably wouldn't have even thought of converting my old Spar-T to compound leverage. BUT - it was fun to do and I use it far more now than before.

[EDG]

You guys need to review your materials properties.
Cast iron is pretty much the gold standard for rigid press frames.
Aluminum is about like a spring. The term is modulus of elasticity aka "Young modulus" and aluminum yields much easier than cast iron.
Grey cast iron has twice the modulus of aluminum.

Do you mean the Lee "Loader" thing, i.e. the hammer operated hand die system? I still have a couple of those but only keep them for historical value, haven't used either one in decades.

Lee's "Reloader" is an alum alloy C press, small but astonishingly strong. I get 2 1/2 - 3 thou spring in my RC II when FL sizing for my .30-06 but too little stretch to even measure with either of my little Reloaders; that astonished me too. I checked it with the same FL die and shell holder, die adjusted to obtain the same headspace length, using the same case lube/application, and on the same lot of my own fired Remington cases while using a precision dial indicator reading in tenths.

NOTE to the world: I'm not by any means saying those little presses are "stronger" than a massive iron body press, only that within its strength limits Lee's cast alum alloy is much less elastic than cast iron.

IF I'd had the Reloader presses first I probably wouldn't have even thought of converting my old Spar-T to compound leverage. BUT - it was fun to do and I use it far more now than before.

[EDG]

You guys need to review your materials properties.
Cast iron is pretty much the gold standard for rigid press frames.
Aluminum is about like a spring. The term is modulus of elasticity aka "Young's modulus" and aluminum yields much easier than cast iron.
Grey cast iron has twice the modulus of aluminum. It is a common engineering property. You can find the values on the internet if you look.

Do you mean the Lee "Loader" thing, i.e. the hammer operated hand die system? I still have a couple of those but only keep them for historical value, haven't used either one in decades.

Lee's "Reloader" is an alum alloy C press, small but astonishingly strong. I get 2 1/2 - 3 thou spring in my RC II when FL sizing for my .30-06 but too little stretch to even measure with either of my little Reloaders; that astonished me too. I checked it with the same FL die and shell holder, die adjusted to obtain the same headspace length, using the same case lube/application, and on the same lot of my own fired Remington cases while using a precision dial indicator reading in tenths.

NOTE to the world: I'm not by any means saying those little presses are "stronger" than a massive iron body press, only that within its strength limits Lee's cast alum alloy is much less elastic than cast iron.

IF I'd had the Reloader presses first I probably wouldn't have even thought of converting my old Spar-T to compound leverage. BUT - it was fun to do and I use it far more now than before.

[squidtamer]

Do you mean the original Lee "Loader" thing, i.e. the hammer operated hand die system? I still have a couple of those but only keep them for historical value, haven't used either one in decades.

Lee's "Reloader" is an alum alloy C press, small but astonishingly strong.

Whoops. yes the hammer operated one from the wayback machine. probably actually called "the Lee Loader"? I didn't realize they had a C frame with the same/similar name.

As EDG points out, aluminum is far more ductile than cast iron. I had no complaints about the Spartan that my rockchucker didn't answer. Then again I used it (the spartan) for 30-06 competition rounds for years and almost no trouble save a couple of broken linkage points. It's been a good press. *shrug*


(looks like the board is multi-posting replies.)

[1hole]

Whoops. yes the hammer operated one from the wayback machine. probably actually called "the Lee Loader"? I didn't realize they had a C frame with the same/similar name.

The "Loader" is/was the hand dies, the press is the "Reloader" using standard dies.

As EDG points out, aluminum is far more ductile than cast iron.

Yes, I suppose most of us know aluminum is more ductile than cast iron or steel but when alum is alloyed the yield strength can easily quadruple and can easily be cast. Lee's alloy is very much stronger than simple aluminum and can be used to make auto and outboard motors, rocket parts and rifle/handgun receivers ... and loading presses as confirmed by not only Lee but Hornady, RCBS and Dillon. The point becomes one of yield strength and, within their separate tensile strengths, alum alloys tend to be less elastic than equal thicknesses of cast iron.

Modulus of elasticity as in springs hardly applies to alum springs. Or Lead or copper or cast iron. Etc. ??

I had no complaints about the Spartan that my rockchucker didn't answer.

Yeah, that's why I have an RC II too. But green has no magic, a modern press that looks basically the same will work the same. And, after all, any bigger chunk of cast iron is obviously stronger than a smaller chunk. But ....

Then again I used it (the spartan) for 30-06 competition rounds for years and almost no trouble save a couple of broken linkage points. It's been a good press. *shrug*

... but, how strong does a press need to be? I mean that after sufficent strength has been built in, making a press 2 or 3 or 4 times stronger brings nothing more to the bench. What we each need depends on what we will do with the tool, not what someone else needs; Lee's smallest alum alloy press (Reloader) is easily strong enough for conventional reloading.

As a light turrent press, my old Spar-T was much less rigid than your Spartan but for more than 25 years I loaded thousands of rounds of .30-06, and much more smaller stuff, including some serious case reforming, without a bobble.

The compound linkage of my RC greatly reduced the lever work/effort but that was all it added. I modified the old S-T's linkage so now it has that too.