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Thread: Single action grip shape

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    When I was young and shot every day, I could "control the roll" of my .41 BH with 210gr/1450fps loads well enough to splinter 5 bowling pins in 5.5 seconds. Shooting two handed, cocking the hammer with my weak side thumb. I never lost control of said gun.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.
    I have a BFR in 45-70 and have pushed 405s to 1750fps. And while it was no longer fun to shoot, it was still controllable. I could put 5 into 1.5" at 50yds with the open sights

  3. #43
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    I was at a gun show mostly looking for a .41 mag Blackhawk. Saw one on the first table I came to. I ended up with it and while I was walking around I ran into a guy trying to sell another almost identical one except it had the Bisley grip. Got it too. Shot them both, took the regular gripped model to the next gun show and traded it off. At least with a stout .41 load the Bisley grip was much better in my hands. I own more than a few S&Ws in all frame sizes. No problems with them either. I also had a Ruger Redhawk in .41 recently, it was controllable but I never liked the feel and traded it off too. Still have and shoot the Bisley.

  4. #44
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    Ok, my wife was reading the thread and she would like to respond
    She accepts you challenge on one condition
    You have to shoot our 70cal Howdah, with a max load, and not have it hit you in the face.

    You should come down for a BBQ and shoot some beasts...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by lar45; 01-11-2019 at 11:08 PM.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Ok, my wife was reading the thread and she would like to respond
    She accepts you challenge on one condition
    You have to shoot our 70cal Howdah, with a max load, and not have it hit you in the face.
    Attachment 233743
    You should come down for a BBQ and shoot some beasts...
    Absolutely! Please add a picture, I can't see it.

    I'm sorry if I become snarky. As one person said, frustration starts where knowledge ends.

    I've been too into handguns lately. I need a break back to shotguns where I actually know something.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 01-11-2019 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #46
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    I never had an urge to shoot such as a Howdah, but I did buy an Encore pistol once in 30-06.
    It wasn't as bad as the .454 that I traded for.....
    Tom
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom W. View Post
    I never had an urge to shoot such as a Howdah, but I did buy an Encore pistol once in 30-06.
    It wasn't as bad as the .454 that I traded for.....
    The howdah is one thing. Same as my Scout pistol, just don't use as much powder. That 45-70, 405 gr at 1750 fps, that is another. I can't even imagine what that is like. I'm guessing a guy doesn't shoot too many of those before backing off.

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Some day when you have the chance, handle a 1851 Navy and feel the bliss of the plow handle with perfect balance. As far as Rugers go, the SBH and Bisley have the extra weight of steel grip frames. The standard Blackhawk's alloy frame allows more commotion in recoil.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.

    The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.
    I REALLY with I was closer, I could always use another $20.

  10. #50
    Boolit Man
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    Mr. megasupermagnum- I reckon that for revolvers which match up with your screen name that the old single action-type grips may not be the best design. What they are good for though is for rapidly lining up a shot with a Colt's SAA (at least for me they are). My view is that this is what I want to be able to do with a revolver mostly, so that if there is a threatening rattlesnake, badger, mountain lion or something else that I can effectively shoot the threat. Same thing with a double action gun, but for me the SA points a bit straighter and quicker without a lot of effort. As for being controllable in the hand on recoil I find the SA handles this well with the load levels that revolvers are very useful at. I guess there are lots of shooters who like heavy loadings and some who like REALLY heavy loadings, and these folks will have their own different requirements for the gun's handle shape (As an aside though, DA grip shapes are not really all that much like the inside of most hands either, unless you have a ring finger and little finger which are longer than your middle and index fingers). But again as an answer to your question, I believe that the old single action grip came about because it is pretty "ergonomic" for effective use of standard loads in SA revolvers.

  11. #51
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    I too would take the $20 challenge. I have handled & shot many custom big bore handguns,, and I understand recoil. I once had a shooter who had a BFR in 450 Marlin. He challenged me to shoot a full cylinder with it. We were at an indoor range, and the longest distance was 25 yds. Not only did I meet his challenge, I exceeded it by shooting 2 cylinders full. AND my grouping was one single ragged hole of about 2". I took his money too.

    And your comments;
    "The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.'

    We have discussed this in many threads etc.
    The tapered design DOES work for many,, when you understand the physics of recoil, AND are NOT fighting the recoil. You have even admitted fighting the recoil,, and by your constant comments about disliking the tapered shape, and wanting a grip shape you can "control" prove that you are unwilling to try & find a proper instructor, who can & will teach you how to shoot a SA plow handle. OR,, you are unwilling to accept the physics of how a SA works, and feel it is a design failure because you can't make it work in your hands. As noted by myself, and many others, ,,, the SA design can & does work quite well, and has for decades. The tapered shape you mention seems to be your main beef, because it isn't shaped like a DA design.
    Look at a DA and look at a SA. The SA has the grip frame under the main frame, while the DA has it behind the main frame.
    Next, if you want to understand it even more, do this;
    Take a big wad of modelling clay, say the size of a baseball. Get a grip on it, and squeeze it until you get a hand shape. Next, look at it and you will see excess at the bottom, while at the thumb area, you will have less clay.
    BUT,, all this aside,, you still refuse to accept the fact that you CAN control the recoil without fighting it. A SA can & does work, in the hands of those willing to learn how. Fighting it actually causes more felt recoil, and hinders accuracy.

    I stand by my offer to teach you how if you are ever in my area.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Ok, my wife was reading the thread and she would like to respond
    She accepts you challenge on one condition
    You have to shoot our 70cal Howdah, with a max load, and not have it hit you in the face.

    You should come down for a BBQ and shoot some beasts...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	70cal-01.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	75.6 KB 
ID:	233744
    Uh-huh.
    Now I've seen the proverbial "gun that kills on both ends"

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy Rainier's Avatar
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    Have you seen the original grips for the scout pistol? I'll tell you what, if you can shoot my scout pistol loaded to the max with the original grips, and not hit yourself in the face, I'll pay you $20, plus a free day shooting. No gloves either. The max listed is 110 grains of FFg powder. From what I've seen, that gets a 430 grain maxi ball going almost 1200 fps.
    Ha Ha Ha! Iím dying over here Thanks for the laugh!

    I tried a single shot with 80 grains and a 380 grain REAL. I knew it would be strong, so gripped as tight as possible. While the recoil was stout, nothing crazy, I've never come so close to taking a front sight in the head.
    As probably the least experienced single action shooter on this thread hereís an offer for ya. Next time Iím in Minn-a-snow-ta letís get together and Iíll give your 80 grain - 380 grain REAL load a wave. If I manage that without injury the first whiskey is on you. If I get smacked in the head Iíll buy you a copy of ďSixgunsĒ. If nothing else comes from our adventure at least it involves shooting guns and whiskey And of course the $110 dollar offer still stands.
    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies" Ron Paul

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy wildcatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contender1 View Post
    I too would take the $20 challenge. I have handled & shot many custom big bore handguns,, and I understand recoil. I once had a shooter who had a BFR in 450 Marlin. He challenged me to shoot a full cylinder with it. We were at an indoor range, and the longest distance was 25 yds. Not only did I meet his challenge, I exceeded it by shooting 2 cylinders full. AND my grouping was one single ragged hole of about 2". I took his money too.

    And your comments;
    "The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.'

    We have discussed this in many threads etc.
    The tapered design DOES work for many,, when you understand the physics of recoil, AND are NOT fighting the recoil. You have even admitted fighting the recoil,, and by your constant comments about disliking the tapered shape, and wanting a grip shape you can "control" prove that you are unwilling to try & find a proper instructor, who can & will teach you how to shoot a SA plow handle. OR,, you are unwilling to accept the physics of how a SA works, and feel it is a design failure because you can't make it work in your hands. As noted by myself, and many others, ,,, the SA design can & does work quite well, and has for decades. The tapered shape you mention seems to be your main beef, because it isn't shaped like a DA design.
    Look at a DA and look at a SA. The SA has the grip frame under the main frame, while the DA has it behind the main frame.
    Next, if you want to understand it even more, do this;
    Take a big wad of modelling clay, say the size of a baseball. Get a grip on it, and squeeze it until you get a hand shape. Next, look at it and you will see excess at the bottom, while at the thumb area, you will have less clay.
    BUT,, all this aside,, you still refuse to accept the fact that you CAN control the recoil without fighting it. A SA can & does work, in the hands of those willing to learn how. Fighting it actually causes more felt recoil, and hinders accuracy.

    I stand by my offer to teach you how if you are ever in my area.
    Another good point in the benefits of the SA grip for the most demanding calibers is the fact of how much easier on the joints, elbows and the wrist in particular, that a single action is than the harshness the DA grip puts on the same joints. As Contender1 said, he can teach that to happen with the SA, I no he can't do that with Double Action.

    The SA allows some of that recoil to roll up and back as it is unleashing and transfers it's energy into the wrist and transfers back to the elbows, while the DA forces more of it's energy directly rearward and back into the wrist and elbows. That opposite energy transfer is the same with both weight revolvers and more so with a lighter revolver, if it isn't moving up and to the side, 100% of it is pounded into places that are known to breed arthritis and other joint damage,, and those are facts, not opinions!

    This is not an issue when your 20 years old even 40 or 50, but will certainly be much more noticeable when you close in on 60 and swelling and pain start to overpower the idea to use and enjoy bigger bores and bullet weights, and obviously easier and less painful using a SA with proper technique days later than the best technique with a DA when you close on that 70 year mark. You may not notice it at a younger age, but rocks and dynamite are taking their toll at a much greater extent with the DA. This is more noticeable to those shooting 1000's of heavy rounds a year than those shooting them with heavy loads on a very rare occasion, or plinking loads.

    But their is no doubt many will never learn to use the SA while others will master them, but on the firing line when accuracy with absolute power is the main coarse of intent, it sure looks like we will continue to see those dominating, doing it with the Single Actions of the time for these obvious reasons as well as simplicity, especially when one single shot can mean the difference. In spray and pray competition, the Double Action will always prevail. Then for the hunter, most will turn the advantages the Single Action will offer, simplicity, better tuned actions for the purpose, and less irreparable damage to user over their lifetime.

    This may not mean much for them using 38 calibers and smaller, but when you close in that 45 caliber and beyond it becomes more and more relevant, and for me those the most fun to shoot, I want to be able to shoot them as long as I can, and grin at what they do on the other end, that's what makes me smile.
    Last edited by wildcatter; 01-12-2019 at 03:03 PM.

  15. #55
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    contender1.......+1!! My experience exactly.........but then I started shooting handguns in '47. Elmer in his books was my guru.
    Life Member NRA.
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    Retired from Instructing, and just about everything else!

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by contender1 View Post
    I too would take the $20 challenge. I have handled & shot many custom big bore handguns,, and I understand recoil. I once had a shooter who had a BFR in 450 Marlin. He challenged me to shoot a full cylinder with it. We were at an indoor range, and the longest distance was 25 yds. Not only did I meet his challenge, I exceeded it by shooting 2 cylinders full. AND my grouping was one single ragged hole of about 2". I took his money too.

    And your comments;
    "The more I look at them, the more I think a single action grip frame can be made to work. It's just that the ones I end up shooting have the old west style looking ones that are essentially bell shaped. You might as well make a grip out of an icicle if that's your idea of a good shooter. They don't need to be soft rubber Hogues, but just something that at the very least isn't tapered. That is a design, made to fail.'

    We have discussed this in many threads etc.
    The tapered design DOES work for many,, when you understand the physics of recoil, AND are NOT fighting the recoil. You have even admitted fighting the recoil,, and by your constant comments about disliking the tapered shape, and wanting a grip shape you can "control" prove that you are unwilling to try & find a proper instructor, who can & will teach you how to shoot a SA plow handle. OR,, you are unwilling to accept the physics of how a SA works, and feel it is a design failure because you can't make it work in your hands. As noted by myself, and many others, ,,, the SA design can & does work quite well, and has for decades. The tapered shape you mention seems to be your main beef, because it isn't shaped like a DA design.
    Look at a DA and look at a SA. The SA has the grip frame under the main frame, while the DA has it behind the main frame.
    Next, if you want to understand it even more, do this;
    Take a big wad of modelling clay, say the size of a baseball. Get a grip on it, and squeeze it until you get a hand shape. Next, look at it and you will see excess at the bottom, while at the thumb area, you will have less clay.
    BUT,, all this aside,, you still refuse to accept the fact that you CAN control the recoil without fighting it. A SA can & does work, in the hands of those willing to learn how. Fighting it actually causes more felt recoil, and hinders accuracy.

    I stand by my offer to teach you how if you are ever in my area.
    I know you are right, on every point.

    For myself it comes down to one thing, the gun slipping in my hand. Until I can get it in my head that this is ok, I won't make a good single action student. If I ever make it down to NC I'll be sure and call.

    I shot the Scout pistol with the Hogue grips today. These work so much better for me. I was able to just get behind the gun and focus on the sights. If I come across a bisley Ruger, I'll be sure to give it a good look over.

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