Single action grip shape

[megasupermagnum]

I didn't want to continue taking up other peoples threads so I will start a new one.

I have been shooting single action revolvers as long as I have double action. The first two handguns I started on were a Ruger Blackhawk and S&W N frame. While I'm no expert on either, it did not take me long to become proficient with most double actions. I've tried for years to become comfortable shooting a single action, it's just not happening. Currently the only gun I own with a single action grip is a TC Scout Pistol, a 54 caliber muzzleloading monster. loaded with 60 grains FF Goex and a round ball, it's just fine. I tried a single shot with 80 grains and a 380 grain REAL. I knew it would be strong, so gripped as tight as possible. While the recoil was stout, nothing crazy, I've never come so close to taking a front sight in the head. The gun is not controllable in the slightest. This has been my experience with every powerful single action I've ever tried.

I'm not here to bash on single action revolvers, I just want to understand the science of why the round grip style are around, and almost unanimously used for the largest handguns. I've never got to try a large bore with a Bisley grip, I've not come across anyone who owns one. I'd like to some day, and for all I know it is the answer. It seems to me that the grip with a rounded back, fat bottom, and straight taper to the top is designed to fail. I've read over and over how the roll, really a loss of control in my view, can be used to cock the hammer one handed. I can see them working just fine for that job with softer shooting guns that don't have the power to cartwheel themselves. I've tried a very relaxed arm, something almost impossible to do from a bench, and still the gun turns in the hand faster than it can impart any recoil to my wrist and elbow.


Double actions are so simple by comparison. Whether it's a frame or grip stud, both are shaped like a human hand for the most part. You are then free to find the grip that fits your hand the best. I just don't understand what the single action grips are going for. In no way does the profile resemble a palm of a hand, and the grip panels don't either. You can hold them high, middle, or even low with pinky below the grip, it all feels the same. Vertical stringing is often the result for me. A double action grip just sucks your hand right into place.

It seems I'm missing out on some great firearms, I'd like to figure out how to make them work.

[MT Chambers]

Try the Bisley shape or the Freedom Arms both standard and round butt.

[slughammer]

....... I've never got to try a large bore with a Bisley grip, I've not come across anyone who owns one. I'd like to some day, and for all I know it is the answer.....

I felt the same way about the standard Blackhawk grip I had. S&W Double action revolvers and 1911's fit me and point correctly.

No one I know has a Bisley grip; but what I read made it seem like what I wanted, so I bought a 44spl Flat top Bisley Blackhawk. Terrific! It points and recoils just the way I'm used to. I highly recommend getting one.

[Greg S]

I can shoot a Ruger plow handle but it is not comfortable in 45 Colt or simular. Give me a Bisley in anything single action. Bigger grip, grip angle is better, points well and allow you to soak up the recoil without the pistol turning up in your hand under recoil. If you need a larger grip than factory, put some Hogue grips on it. G

[mike69]

I have a Blackhawk 45 colt that I just put the Hogue rubber gripe on . I do like the feel of it better than the factor grip when shooting it now . thinking of getting there fancy wood grip for to try out like the look of the wood over the rubber grip .

[Walks]

Single Actions are great. The plow handle grip is great, in rolls back in the hand under recoil.
The COLT SAA in .45COLT was the first centerfire handgun I ever fired. It rolled back in my two-handed grip, and I had no trouble hanging on to it with my 6yr old hands.
Later on I took up the COLT .357 Mag & S&W 19. Had no problem switching to a double action grip.
The grip doesn't seem to matter that much to me. I've shot all the RUGER grip variations, the old Virginia Dragoon, the Freedom Arms .454, and the T/C Contender grip in most variations and big Calibers.

The old Hogue white grips, HERRET Shooting Star's & Jordan Troopers. All Pachmyer Variations. And the New Hogue soft rubber with finger grooves.

Can't seem to figure out why folks have trouble adapting to different grips. I can't see the difference between a 1911 & a GLOCK. Sure they feel different in the hand. But I adapt equally well to either grip.

I think it's a matter of "hand adjustment" as much as "mind adjustment".

If ya don't like a handgun, you just won't be able to shoot it well.

[gnostic]

I do better with a S&W, but it's as a result of the faster locktime. I let single action revolvers roll in my hands rather then use a deathgrip on them.

[megasupermagnum]

A glock grip is just a modified 1911 grip. Both are just a stone throw from a double action revolver grip like a S&W N frame or similar. The Single action plow handle is light years different from everything else. Blackpowder level 45 colt is one thing. There's no way you are hanging on to a Blackhawk shooting real 44 magnum rounds. I can do it in a S&W N frame without thought. In a Blackhawk, the hogue grip at least keeps you from wearing the gun as a hat, but that's about it.

[Chad5005]

I have fairly large hands and have never really had a problem with grips of any kind,after a few shots to get used to a handgun,i love ruger plow handle grips,im not a rubber grip person,i do not care for bird head grip,i mainly own rugers but do have tuarus,smith and colt

[FergusonTO35]

I find the Ruger Super Blackhawk grip very comfortable, wish you could order a Blackhawk from the factory with it.

[megasupermagnum]

I was under the impression that the difference between a Blackhawk and super Blackhawk, among other things, was an aluminum vs stainless steel grip frame. Other than that, the shape looks identical to me. I've fired both a Blackhawk and super Blackhawk side by side. They feel the same, both want to fly out of the hand.

[tazman]

I have never been able to shoot any centerfire single action revolver accurately and most hurt my hands. Even the lightly recoiling 38 specials in a Blackhawk will beat up my knuckles with the trigger guard and occasionally put the hammer spur into the web of my hand.
I finally gave up on them altogether.

[Brassduck]

some people can shoot anything they put their hands on, some people can not. Good Luck

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Funny you mention the L frame. I shoot SAA Colt’s by far the most because they feel the best in my hand. Recently I went to a gun show and found just the L frame I was looking for but I didn’t buy it because it felt so foreign in my hand. I was a peace officer for over 30 years and carried a Ruger Security Six 6” with Pachmayr grips for over 8 years. Now I can’t accept it the grip of the DA in my hand although I wanted to buy an L frame. It was a beauty, blued 6” pre-side lock safety hole. If I’d have bought it I’d never shot it. I think it’s just each their own, and the way our hands are wired to our brains.

[megasupermagnum]

Still nobody has answered my question. The quintessential double action grip is shaped to fit the inside of a persons hand. The single action grip is not. That's why I'm baffled, I don't understand the reasoning why the grip is shaped the way it is.

[M-Tecs]

I find that I can shot quicker and more accurately one handed with the standard Blackhawk grip. Two handed I do better with the Bisley. With the double action grip style 44 Mag is about max for me before it becomes uncomfortable. The Bisley handles heavy recoil best for me.

[Larry Gibson]

Still nobody has answered my question. The quintessential double action grip is shaped to fit the inside of a persons hand. The single action grip is not. That's why I'm baffled, I don't understand the reasoning why the grip is shaped the way it is.

The SA grip is the way it is because it evolved that way with Colt finishing the final design. The design facilitates the use of a single action because double action revolvers were not around then. Handguns were used single handed and needed to be cocked with the shooting hand. That is easy to do with the SA. It also was found, as the power of the handgun cartridges increased, that recoil was easily handled and the rolling of the action brought the hammer more readily in position for cocking on repeat shots. I've been shooting 357, 41 and 44 magnum SAs since '68 with full power magnum loads and have never had any "want to fly out of my hand". I've also fired the more powerful 45s and 50s and, while recoil was there, they also never came close to flying out of my hand. Like any firearm it's simple a matter of a proper grip on the SA revolver.

BTW; I spent a lot of years in law enforcement "back in the day" when the revolver reigned supreme. I also competed in LE and IPSC competitions using a revolver. I was an advanced firearms instructor for the state LE certifying agency and instructed LEOs in DA revolver use. I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds through S&W, Colt, Ruger and other makes of DA revolvers. One thing that was consistently apparent was the fit of the grip in the hand, either SA or DA, is essential to good (and comfortable) shooting. It is easy to master either style of revolver if the grip fits.

I still have both SA and DA revolvers in .22LR, 32 S&W, 32 H&R, 36 S&W, 38 SPL, .357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP and 45 Colt. I shoot both styles equally well because I've not developed a bias against either and understand the capabilities of whichever I am shooting at the time. I thoroughly enjoy shooting both styles.

[contender1]

For the OP & anyone else who feels one grip style is better than the other.
First, I'll offer a bit of info about myself. I'm a 50 yr veteran handgun shooter, a NRA instructor, a gun range owner, a USPSA competitor, a handgun hunter, and WOT clinic instructor.

The number one thing I teach is; "A gun must fit YOUR hand before you can do well with it."

That said,, some folks can shoot many different types of handguns w/o issues switching between them. I actually hunted with a T/C Contender for many years, competed with a 1911, CCWed a DA revolver, and shot SA's in all types of situations.

Why?

Because I learned HOW to grip each style of handgun, AND found grips that fit my hands.

Proper instruction goes a LONG way in learning how to shoot any style. But the grip must fit your hands.

Next, the physics of it all. Look at the design of the gun, how it moves under recoil, and learn to master the control of the recoil for accurate shooting.
A SA design tends to roll a bit, muzzle flipping upwards, and actually turning to the side a bit if held with one hand. (And yes,, you CAN shoot a Ruger Blackhawk, or Super Blackhawk in 44 mag one handed accurately.)
The DA design tends to push back and up a bit, with less rolling,, but more bit in felt recoil as it is delivered rearward. And I have shot true big bore handguns one handed in both SA & DA designs.
The semi-auto's use the recoil to operate the action, and there is a different felt recoil due to all this. Plus, in a semi, the hand is positioned higher to the centerline of the bore, allowing a different feel in the felt recoil. It is taught to get your hand as high in the grip as possible for a semi, for recoil control.

But one of the biggest things I have had students fail at is UNDERSTANDING how to properly control recoil. Too many people want to "fight" the recoil, by various thought processes. One process they try is to "Hold it with a death grip to keep it from rising so much." This is true with SA's & DA's. Fear of recoil is the driving factor here. With a death grip,, you can not get good trigger control for accurate shooting. Too much hand & arm tension CAUSES felt recoil pain. The master hand should be used for proper hold & trigger control, while the off hand is used to balance & control recoil.

It was asked by the OP, about the shape of the grip designs. Go back, long before revolvers were designed. The flintlock handguns. Lower power, and shaped to allow a single hand to fire them. Yet, felt recoil wasn't an issue, as it is with modern calibers. Then, as evolution of engineers looked at things, the shape of the grip evolved, and it turned into the classic "plow handle" design. But again, in the 1800's and into the 1900's, heavy recoiling calibers were not designed yet. But long before the big bores,, Colt designed a "Bisley" style, that does fit a lot of hands & is controllable to shoot. The big bore magnum era, didn't really happen until the mid 1950's. And with S&W & Ruger offering that caliber, in two different designs. Many folks found the large grip frame of the S&W was too much, as did many with the Rugers. Ruger came out with different grip designs,,, due to conversations with popular gun writers and handgunners. (Elmer Keith was very influential in this.) Ruger went from the XR3 design, to adding the Super Blackhawk Dragoon design, (which, for those above who have never tried it, is longer & flared differently) And then they added a flare to the bottom of the g/f with the XR3-RED design. That is the current shape of most Ruger SA guns, except for the Supers, and the Bisleys.
The DA design was developed, as a total different action type, to allow for pulling the trigger to fire the gun, and as such, the frame design allows for better torque in transferring energy from the hand to the trigger finger.
It was an evolution in design.

And, as for the Bisley design by Ruger. It was developed to allow for a different feel to many, AND allow for better proper recoil control.

So, to answer the Op's question, you can see it's not a simple cut & dried answer.

You have to find a grip that fits your hands, AND get proper instruction in HOW to use different grip frame designs to shoot properly. And even with all that,, due to different hand shapes,, sometimes even that will not work the best. As mentioned above, part of it is mental as well.

It was mentioned by a few folks above that they had no access to try a Bisley gripped SA,,, or whatever. I would offer this. Find a SASS competition club, and visit. Talk to the cowboys there. And, soon, you will find one who not only has some Bisley's, they will have them in big bore recoiling calibers. BUT,, also ask for someone who is a GOOD instructor in HOW to shoot a SA to teach you.
Or,, if you can find someone who is an old time silhouette shooter,, (a game that has sadly declined, as it is a premier type of long range handgun shooting that requires a LOT of serious shooting,) to teach you HOW to shoot a SA properly.

And I'll even offer this;
I own a range, and several guns, in DA, SA, and Bisley. if you are ever in WNC,, I'll offer to let you try mine, AND teach you how to handle a SA.

[Rainier]

I sure don’t have the experience of some others on this thread but I’ll share my very limited experience. I never really shot big bore revolvers until about 10 years ago, I just enjoyed my 9mm's, 45 ACP’s and 357 mag’s etc… Well, my first experience with a large bore revolver was a real eye opener. I was over griping a Ruger RedHawk 44 mag with locked wrist and tight elbow like a 1911 - bad mistake! I got lucky and managed to read Elmer Keith’s book “Six Guns” where he writes about letting a big bore six gun recoil up at the elbows. So, from my first painful experience I went to an “Oh! This is fun!” at the next range session. After I sorted out how to let a big bore revolver recoil, next came a comfortable grip. I tried many different grips on the RedHawk and then found the Pachmyar presentation grip. It fits MY hand and I’ve been taken with the RedHawks ever since.

What does any of this have to do with the OP’s single action grip question? For single actions, I have a brace of Ruger Vaquero’s in 357 mag and a BlackHawk 45 Colt convertible (and maybe one to two others) with plow handles. The 357 Vaquero’s don’t recoil enough to make shooting them much of a challenge in my opinion. The BlackHawk, especially if loaded to 45 Colt “Ruger only” stop a charging cement mixer levels, certainly will present a challenge if your not prepared. I haven’t changed the grips on any of them and they point great, feel great and just plain work… for me. I even shot one of my friends Bisley gripped Rugers and found I much preferred the plow handle. Grips, I’ve come to the conclusion, are a pretty personal choice.

My question for the OP is, do you let the large bore single action recoil at the elbow(s)? The plow handle grip will move a bit in your hand but not much if… you allow the recoil to be absorbed into the elbow(s) complimented with a very small amount of upwards movement at the shoulder(s). I haven't had any challenge with single action big bore revolver recoil (say that fast ten times) since I sorted out you need to “go with the flow” - Thank you Elmer Keith!

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, I can shoot The N frame and Redhawk no problem. They are just so much more natural for me. Not all factory grips work, but with the right set, I have no pain shooting any 44 magnums. The problem I run into is the blast from such a round causes mental fatigue that limits me to about 25 full power rounds at a time depending on the day. It's just the honest truth. Once I feel myself starting to tense at the shot, it's time to pack it up for the day.

In the case of a single action, it's not my subconscious. I think to myself, I have to hold on tight. The moment I don't, that thing is sliding around. The trick seems to be to keep as tight a grip as possible, while maintaining a limp wrist and elbow. Normally I resort to keeping my pinky under the grip, but that can't be right. It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right.

That's beside the point. Why are modern guns like the BFR, with no connection to the historic guns, keeping a grip that is harder to use? Surely there is some reason I'm missing. After all I've heard, it sounds like I have to try a bisley grip. In that case, it seems the angle is the key. I still don't see how it can possibly be better than a more shaped grip.