I have heard that one reason it flopped was because of flame cutting. However the 460 S&W can put out similar velocities to the 357 Max all while burning more powder and pushing heavier bullets, and I have not heard of any flame cutting problems. So why did this round flop?
Because Ruger panic'd and stopped production. The frame cutting was proven to be mostly superficial, as the cut widened a bit its depth was mitigated to the point where it didn't become appreciably deeper. Ruger was in full "Lawyer Panic" mode as they often seem to be.
"Investment" is the new "Throw money at it!"
Detectives, and Cobras, and Agents!
Oh my!
Yes but Dan Wesson also had issues with the 357 Max. Oh and is it “Flame” or “Frame” cutting? Both seem to make sense but which one is correct?
I heard the S&W has an insert in the frame that can be replaced. Does anyone know for sure?
Pretty sure they do. A little folded over piece of stainless sheet metal I believe. I think they have them on alot of their "not steel frame" revolvers now too.Originally Posted by 44man
Actually, the problem with the .357 Maximum was guys shooting light bullets with heaping spoonfulls of hairy hot ball powder.
And Ruger's response wasn't so much a panic as it was a business decision. Their thinking at the time was "yeah, there's a bit of a problem, and in addition to longer frames and cylinders we now have to use special steel in the frames and barrels, too? Forget it. Not enough demand." (Yes, Ruger does confiscate Maximums sent to them for work, But as far as I know, there never was an actual published recall. )
The most effective way to deal with top strap cutting is to put a chamfer on the front edge of the cylinder. This permits the escaping gas to disperse so it's not the cutting knife-edge of gas it otherwise would be.
I would just love it if revolvers started to be chambered in 357 Max again.
BF could make them in that caliber pretty easy, as they already have a rev. with a cylinder opening long enough., as could Smith on the X frame, that would be kinda overkill though.
Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....
A lever rifle chambered in 357 Maximum would be kinda cool, too.
If Ruger (or anyone else) confiscated my revolver, a lively and spirited exchange would ensue forthwith. You gotta be kidding--a move like that would be ludicrous--not to mention, ILLEGAL.
Of course, anytime you let lawyers set policy--public or private--you're asking for trouble. One need look no further than State and Federal legislatures for confirmation of that belief.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
I had .357 Maxi in a Savage M24, a TC contender carbine, and an H&R handi rifle.
Still have the H&R and intend to try it with BP when I get the chance.
The Savage was almost as handy as a concrete fence post and strung the shots badly as it heated up.
The TC had a folding stock and felt like getting hit in the cheak with the Savage every time it went off.
The H&R is a cute and handy little gun. I last fired it with a .357 case full of black powder and it was a rack of fun to shoot and reasonably accurate at 25 yards.
I also have a NIB Ruger SRM revolver in .357 maxi and it will probably remain unfired.
A much larger problem with revolvers in .357 Maxi, than the gas cutting of the frame was severe erosion of the barrel forcing cone. The DW revolvers were shipped with two barrel liners and a coupon for a third one. They were said to be excellent revolvers when fired with an appropriate heavy bullet and very popular among the silhouette shooters of the day. I've never been a fan of DWs so I didn't get one in 357 maxi.
Jack
Does anyone here own a 357 Max revolver that has only ever had 180gr+ loads in it? If so what does the forcing cone and top strap look like?
I just checked out "Big Bore Sixguns" by John Taffin. In the chapter on the .357 maximum, he said that he never fired light bullets in his and it is just fine, no flame cutting at all I believe. I would like to have a Thompson Contender in that caliber myself, although I have no experience with it.
exile
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Speaking of non-revolver platforms for the 357max, I briefly toyed with the idea of converting my Win 94 Trapper 357mag to Max. It looked doable, but the gun never shot mag loads to my satisfaction. I ended up selling it for what I paid and never looked back.
Chris
Bob Milek was the big push behind the "it'll cut your gun in half" movement. A well respected gun writer who was instrumental in developing the "herret" cartriges, I wondered if he felt threatened that only single shot pistols should go really fast. Many revolvers shooting light bullets will show a slight flame cut.
[The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze
I've got one that's been converted to .445SM, and it's seen only 300 gr. bullets. After 500 rounds, the shoulder is till sharp and has no sign of cutting.
Of course, I should probably also say that it's also got a chamfer on the front of the cylinder, and has only seen single base powders, too.
A-yup, true fact. When the L-frame S&Ws appeared in the early 1980's, so did FBI's love affair with 125 grain JHP bullets marching out at 1450 FPS from 4" barrels. Great rounds--they'll fold a mastodon with their impact and set off earthquakes near fault zones with their report. They will also initiate flame-cutting on top straps and erosion of forcing cones--although not to an extent that will significantly shorten service life.
When my agency added the 357 Magnum to its caliber selections in 1991, the FBI/125 grain JHP was the round authorized. Deputies started noticing the flame-cuts shortly thereafter, and S&W advised that the wear pattern would "stabilize" (their word) after about 500 rounds. That seemed to be the case. We changed out the 125 grainers to 158 grain JHPs after testing showed the FBI 125s to be a bit too much of a good thing--they could defeat our issued body armor. The 158 grainers didn't and don't flame-cut top straps--although another variable rears its head in the equation.
Our 158 grain load--and most commercial 357 Magnum loadings--now subscribe to a SAAMI pressure standard of ~36K PSI. Formerly, the 357 Magnum's SAAMI standard ran 42K PSI or thereabouts. It is surmised that the pressure standard was lowered in 357 Mag to enable the S&W J-frame 357s to survive a bit longer than a 264 Magnum chamber throat, to lengthen the service lives of K-frame 357s already in the field, and in 41 and 44 Magnum for the benefit of older-series Models 57 and 29 variants that did not take kindly to full-time full-tilt cartridges. L-frame and N-frame 357s can soak up full-tilt 357s with aplomb, as can the near-indestructible Rugers--even the SP-101. Colt Pythons and Troopers (both I-frame and J-frame variants) aren't strained by full-potential 357 loads, either. Curiously, even using the 125 grain FBI loads--I can't recall any flame-cutting on my Colt or Ruger revolvers. One in particular comes to mind, a J-frame Trooper x 6" that I shot the living daylights out of with some healthy handloads and the FBI fodder. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Go figure.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Good Afternoon
If I remember a bit of the history of the time the STEEL shooters (I was one) were the main market for the heavy thumpers. The 357 Max (Super Mag) was still a minimal ram smasher (low body hits not reliable) so it offered little advantage over the 41 & 44 (.43) magnum revolvers. My personal 41 Dan has long enough cylinders the boolit can be crimped long seated and gives that extra case capacity so I can launch 220+ grain bolits at a power factor 357 Max cannot come close to.
The 357 Max is a fine cartridge BUT it just cannot compete against larger diameter bores. The 375 SM WAS areal improvement in the power factor. A 255 grainer at 1400 fps with flat smash 50 lb rams even hit low in the leg. The 41 or 44 SM"s can drive the same & heavier boolits even faster so why have a small bore SM when the same $ will get you a HARD HITTER large bore. Big holes are always better.... ask any tank gunner.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
The maximium length a Win 94 in 357 mag can be modified to fit, is the 360 Dan Wesson case.
I know because I did it to mine.
What was the limiting factor? Seems to me that a rifle that came chambered for cartridges as long as the 30-30 could do a lot better than that...
It seems I remember someone converting their 94 to 357max. Maybe Paco Kelly? I dunno, it's been several years since I looked at it.
Chris
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