0.600" Two Ball Load

[longbow]

So... I got a Lee 0.600" mould for Christmas! You got to love family that gives you casting and reloading presents!

I've been toying with the idea of two and Tri_Ball loads for some time. James Gates posted Dixie's Tri-Ball load recipe which I will try but I also wondered about a two ball load in 2 3/4" hulls.

I cast up a bunch of balls yesterday and the mould cast perfectly. No cleaning (forgot), just sprue plate and pin lube, pre-heat and cast. Got keepers right from the start. No burrs, no issues, no problems of any kind. I haven't mic'd or weighed balls yet but they do look nice. The only downside is that the mould heats up quickly and has to be cooled or casting pace slowed but I used cooling and kept going fast with no other problems. This is a new style Lee mould and I would say good value for money and well made.

I have been wondering about why there doesn't seem to be much info on two ball loads and even Tri-Ball loads (which did get some press) when there is considerable interest in buck and ball loading. Personally I think a single projectile or something like Tri-Ball or two ball load is a better choice for bear or human self defense though any of these are a bit much for close range home/human defense. However, for bears that have taken exception to a guy being in the bush I think they are the way to go.

In any case, I am getting ready to try out some two ball loading. Two 0.600" RB's fit perfectly into 12 ga. CSD wads and should allow a nitro card wad in the bottom. They are a bit undersize but 3 wraps of note paper fixes that and I use 3 individual strips at 1 wrap each so they separate easily. I'll check bore fit but this seems good so far and is adjustable to bore by chaging paper thickness so will work and be used.

My plan is to use Federal field hulls and birdsshot load recipe of equal weight ~ around 626 grs. in wheelweights according to the Beartooth Bullets round ball calculator... I'll weigh some later.

I'll put either a nitro card wad under or a scoop of COW under and a nitro card wad between balls. With the paper wrap the column is firm so I won't use buffer.

If these RB's stay close this should be quite an effective load at least out to where ball spread is too large. If it all works out well, I'll check for equal weight slug or buckshot load data to improve performance. That may require hardened balls (currently ACWW). James recommends hardened balls for Tri-Ball loads.

The only two ball load I have read with any detail is from Shotgunworld ~ Deer Assassins two 0.690" RB load. Does anyone here have two ball load data they will share? And field results which is even better. If spread is too much too fast then not much point but since Tri-Ball loads seem to reach out a ways, these should too I think.

SIARM has both 3 and 2 ball "wads/sabots" but not sure if they ship to Canada. There must be interest on these loads in Europe. I'll check to see if they ship to Canada and at what cost.

If anyone has tried this or has any info please share. I will be loading up and testing in the next couple of weeks.

Longbow

[Loudenboomer]

Didn't some of the old timers cast piano wire into both balls tying them together to keep ball spread and penetration to a minimum?

[Hogtamer]

LB, I loaded a bunch couple of years ago, awesome loads and I don't know how anyone stands the 3 ball for recoil. IIRC the wads were very tapered and used a 28 ga card in bottom, that allowed a tight fit for the first ball, then had to patch the second ball to fit. Killed a couple of hogs too, but figured out a single .600 ball killed 'em just as dead. My single ball took a lot of fitting but shot with no recoil, 1/2 the lead and powder. Shot well from IC. The 2 ball I used 3" hulls and could get one on bull and 3 - 4" spread with second ball from rifled gun. They should perform from your Mossy pretty good when you get the fit. Mine were dinosaur loads and I'm just getting too old to like the huge recoil. Keep us posted !

[longbow]

Yeah... I'll start low. Since they fit the CSD steel wads so well I expect they should shoot reasonably well and should fit 2 3/4" hulls okay.

I have been wondering about one 0.600" ball at higher velocity too. I guess i could use one of the BPI Killer Bee or similar high velocity loads they list in Load of the Week. They have some light payload high velocity data.

One ball on target beats two not on target! However, if spread is small enough then double impact area means a lot for bear stoppers which is the intent... of course just blowing stuff up with them can be entertaining too until the recoil sets in!

Something else too... it turns out that 0.882" RB's and some of my home made slugs are perfect fit into CSD wads and cut down some they may make an decent Brenneke like slug. I have some put together and will test shortly. A 0.600 ball at higher velocity may have its place though.

James reported some pretty good groups at pretty long range for Tri-Ball loads and those have to be good bear stoppers. I'll try those but I hear you about recoil! The disadvantage of these multiple light balls over a big single ball/slug is penetration. The lighter balls in heavy payload are moving slower so are not going to penetrate like a solid single slug. However, on a marginal shot making one or two hits out of three with those fairly substantial ball sis better than a miss. Also with a good hit and good grouping those three balls have to be devastating! Two balls at higher velocity may be about as effective.

Loudneboomer:

I have read of "chain shot" using buckshot and even larger projectiles and many years ago I tried using splitshot clamped to music wire. Didn't work very well for me. Seems to me someone is or was selling "bolo" rounds or the like with two or three larger balls connected. I'd think they might be good for anti personnel rounds but I think the connecting wire/cable would really limit penetration for uses against bears or other dangerous game.

Longbow

[Moonie]

I do tri-ball loads and have thought about the 2 ball loads but have not looked into it seriously. Do be sure you water drop those .600 balls as the tri-ball load requires very hard cast balls.

[longbow]

I was planning on using ACWW for the two ball load but I know the Dixie load recipe calls for quenched balls. I didn't think it would be necessary for the two ball load but after reading your post I'm rethinking and it is likely best if I oven heat treat the balls... just to be sure things don't go awry!

Thanks.

Longbow

[Moonie]

I was planning on using ACWW for the two ball load but I know the Dixie load recipe calls for quenched balls. I didn't think it would be necessary for the two ball load but after reading your post I'm rethinking and it is likely best if I oven heat treat the balls... just to be sure things don't go awry!

Thanks.

Longbow

Dixie reported someone with a bulged barrel after using pure lead soft in the tri-ball load. They were using a full choke and the bulge was near the choke, but I wouldn't chance it.

[longbow]

For my planned load, the balls will be directly in line. Using a CSD wad and paper wrap the balls fit perfectly. Even if they did deform form acceleration a bit they'd just press outwards agains paper and plastic. With the thick CSD wad I doubt any barrel damage could occur and I will be using cylinder bore... no choke.

I will recheck the Tri-Ball recipe James posted and re-read others results before proceeding but I suspect the issue with Tri-Ball loads is both that the balls are not directly lined up and that a tight choke is recommended so when the balls "wedge" together and deform then hit a choke there would be a large amount of sideway pressure.

In any case, I'll err on the side of caution and use hardened balls.

SIARM has plastic "sabots" for two and three ball loads that should avoid any issues with deforming and sidewall pressure. And saying that reminds me that I sent them an online question regarding shipping to Canada because they have some slugs I'd like to try. I haven't heard back in a week+. I better try again!

Longbow

[MusicMan]

Has anyone experimented with something like BPI 222PT20GS upside down under the balls in 12ga?

[longbow]

I haven't because I haven't found any that fit... that is using gas seals off plastic wads as some do. It seems to be fairly common for guys to pick up used wads with cup shaped gas seals and cut them off for use under a ball. The wads I have or find do not have the right shaped gas seal to suit.

Donut wads are used though as are inverted gas seals. For full bore slugs 12 ga. gas seals of the right shape should work and for wad slugs either 16 or 20 ga. should work. I use 16 ga. nitro card wads under slugs and balls as they fit my Winchester wads well but thicker petals might need 20 ga. gas seal to fit. Whatever fits snuggly should work.

Precision Reloading used to have felt donut wads but I do not see them listed anymore. I wish I had bought some to try but I guess I can make my own or use a plastic gas seal as you suggest. Anything that keeps the ball centered should work.

Longbow

[dg31872]

I am geting back into shotshell reloading, and have more questions than answers.
What is a "donut" wad?

[longbow]

Well, I was going to describe them then decided a quick internet search might turn something up. Lo and behold! BPI has them! I looked just recently for donut wads and came to the conclusion they were a thing of the past. Not so:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/12...ctinfo/122CT2/

You can make them yourself using nitro card wads but much easier to buy. The idea is that the ball is centered by the hole so the hole cannot be too big or the wad too thin or it doesn't work.

The BPI blurb says for military and law enforcement so not quite sure what they need donut wads for but there you go.

Not sure why my last search didn't turn these up so thanks for stimulating me to look again.

I just may order some when I put in my next order.

Longbow

[longbow]

I should add that donut wads are normally used under a single ball. The bore diameter dount wads would sit over a hard card wad column and under a 0.690" RB or up to bore diameter RB (I use 0.735"). For smaller balls in shotcups you could use a 20 ga. donut wad inside a shotcup. I'd also put a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad in the bottom of the shotcup first for support.

[dg31872]

Thank you, Longbow..
A picture is worth a thousand words.
I am curious about the "military and law enforcement" too.
Stay warm.

[longbow]

Okay so back to 2 ball loads.

I just mic'd and weighed a few random balls and they mic within about 0.001"/0.0015" of round, which is good in my opinion, and they weigh from 314 grs. + a bit to 318 grs. + a bit so say nominal 316 grs. These are straight wheelweights by the way.

I'll add another plug for Lee here ~ this mould is flawless, no burrs, no marks no issues at all. It cast well right from the start and the balls are very even in dimensions and very close in weight with variation from my random quick check being within 1.25%. Pretty good for the price I'd say!

Payload without wad will be 632 grs. or a little under 1 1/2 oz so 1 1/2 oz. birdshot or buck shot load data should work fine. I'll start with birdshot loads at the lower pressure ranges.

Interestingly that makes these balls a hair under 3/4 oz. in wheelweights so some of the BPI 7/8 oz. or 3/4 oz. high velocity load data should work fine for single 0.600" RB in a CSD wad cut down or using a donut wad in shotcup. These could be pretty high velocity round ball loads at pretty sane pressures and I'd have to guess accuracy should be what round ball accuracy usually is. Less lead and probably less powder along with lighter recoil and still a pretty big hole. What's not to like?

Anyway, for now they are relegated to being 2 ball loads. I will try to get to the range next weekend.

Longbow

[savage308]

I load 2 .600 lee balls in a 2 3/4 clear fiocchi hull with a factory primer and 27.0 bluedot. I use a B.P. TPS 1275
wad mica dusted and a 20 gauge 1/2" hard card between the 2 balls and fold crimp. work great for me.

[longbow]

Good to hear! Thanks for the info.

I've as yet to load any yet as I got distracted by my modified Lee slug mould work. Now I've got those to load too. Was planning on going to the range this weekend but we just got another snow dump so I'll see what the weather is like first. Snow doesn't really put me off but it is supposed to warm up now and slushy goop does put me off.

Do you water drop or quench those RB's?

What sort of groups do you get and at what ranges?

If the spread is too big and too fast then they aren't a lot of use except maybe as bear protection. Not sure if one large slug or two smaller balls would be the better projectile. Two of those RB's is about 1 1/2 oz. so substantial mass. Individually though not sure how well they would penetrate.

Still, could be a fun and interesting round. if they group like the good Tri-Ball loads then this could be quite useful out to 50 yards or so.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

LB,

I am going to try (1) and (2) .600" heat treated RBs in a 3" 20ga rifled H&R tracker II. I plan to use a bpi brush wad for the single ball load. The ball is under bore diameter but the spinning brush wad should impart enough spin to stablize the ball.

I am still thinking about how to load two balls. I need a second plastic cup for the second ball so it will spin.

OT, did you leave the gate open at your place? NW Ohio is supposed to get upwards of a foot saturday and then subzero temperature sunday night. I think you would feel right at home.

BB

[Markopolo]

How about these LB... called washer seals... I believe I got them from BPI about 5 years ago.. gas seal and ball centering all in one...





I often wondered about double ball loads, with one of these washer seals positioned between the 2 round balls...

Marko

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Marco, that wad will be ideal for two RB load just by countersinking it a bit more for the ball to nestle on it and even tri ball loads. Great idea.
Thanks for sharing it.
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots