45-70 for competition?

[rfd]

what are the key positive differences yer seeing, kurt?

[ian45662]

I have never shot a true paper patch chamber so take it for what it’s worth but I would say no. A dedicated pp chamber would probably take less
Steps but as far as accuracy I would say one is no better than the other. That’s for silhouette mind you. I have no experience with bptr but my c sharps has no free bore. No lead. It just as a 12.5 degree transition from the case mouth into the rifling. Out of the 17 shoots I went to in 2018 7 were master scores. Some 34s a 33 and 4 32s. Most of the ones they were not master scores were very close. Couple early shoots in 2018 were mid 20s. Having the chamber that I do does require me to anneal each time though so there is that.


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[rfd]

ian, was that no-leade c.sharps chamber ream special or a c.sharps optional offering?

[ian45662]

My understanding is that c sharps used to use a 45/70 reamer that had a lot of free bore. I didn’t ask for anything special when I ordered it so maybe they have changed their reamer design but I can’t say for sure since this is the only one I have ever had.


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[rfd]

thanx for the pic. if the rifling is consistent in its diameters, how could such a chamber work with a groove sized lubed bullet, since there's no free bore? seems like it requires a bore rider.

[ian45662]

It shoots the brooks 540 grain Creedmoor very well. I tried some 535 grain baco money bullets one time and they were all over the place. My best 200 yard groups have been with the Creedmoor bullet with 67 grains of OE 1.5 but my for silhouette it very much prefers this paper patch bullet. 82 grains of Swiss 1.5


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[Gunlaker]

Ian, that sounds the same as the Browning 1885 chamber. I wish my old C. Sharps 1885 had that chamber, mine was like Jim described his. I never got it shooting PP well, and even for greasers it I could never make it work as well as my Shiloh's.

When was your rifle built if you don't mind me asking? I think I got mine in 2010 or maybe a little earlier.

Chris.

[rfd]

ian, that makes sense since it sure looks like that chamber was made for a bore riding PPB.

[ian45662]

From what I have seen it’s a dead ringer for what they used in the browning bpcr rifles. I just took delivery of a reamer from jgs that duplicates this chamber and I will be using it to chamber my cpa. I took delivery of the Rifle in 2012 if I remember correctly.


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[Distant Thunder]

rfd,

Yes! I'd be lying to say otherwise, but I only have the one rifle that has a "paper patch" chamber and it was cut with Brent's reamer. That being said, I do believe very good accuracy can be achieved with a good standard chamber as long as the bullet is a good fit to that chamber. I've had very good accuracy from my .45-90 Shiloh with their standard chamber and a straight sided bore diameter bullet. I have also gotten excellent accuracy from my C. Sharps 1875 in .40-65 with a designed to fit 2-diameter paper patch bullet.

If I were building a new rifle it would have a paper patch chamber without a doubt and Brent's design has provided excellent accuracy for me and the .45-70 with a PPB is a very good choice for long range matches, I believe it is the best choice.

[ian45662]

The money bullet and creedmoor bullet I have shot out of it we’re both groove diameter bullets. I have shot 2 different type of bore diameter paper patch bullets in this rifle and it has taken to both very well.


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[rfd]

good scoop, fellers. thanx, rob.

[Distant Thunder]

Ian,

The Brooks 540 grain Creedmoor would be an excellent choice for the Pedersoli chamber you posted assuming a length suitable to the twist. That design is much easier to get excellent accuracy with than the high BC Money bullet designs. When those high BC bullets work they work very well, they just don't work in every rifle it seems. The Creedmoor design works in almost any rifle. The Lyman Government bullet is like that too, it works is most rifles. It's not the best choice for LR matches perhaps, but I have seen it used very effectively by a good shooter in LR matches.

That Gov't bullet is very accurate in my C. Sharps .45-70 and I used it at 800 yards at Lodi and often had the high aggregate score at that yardage. I never tried it at 900 and 1000 yards.

[ian45662]

The creedmoor bullet is a very good choice I think. Your right Jim it seems to work in just about every rifle.


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[ian45662]

For what it’s worth I have shot against Jim in silhouette and I am pretty sure he is beating me.


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[Lead pot]

Rob,
Here are the last two reamers I used for the CPA .45-90 and .40-65 both chambers are very tight designed only for a PP bullet that will fit a case mouth of the unsized case. I can't seat a bullet that is .003" over bore diameter in the fired case and the .45-90 has a 5 degree/1'.5" compound lead into the throat the .40-65 has a 4 degree/1.5 compound. And I will say the tight chamber shows better results than the chambers used for a GG with a 45 degree chamber end transition.
The bullet does not have to expand to fill the space as much as a standard chamber and this keeps the bullet from getting swaged back down for the existing bore groove diameter.
I can't explain the results any better than the target in the photo I shot working up loads at 200 yards.
Yes I will say a large chamber will work because I have them also.
Kurt

Attachment 234715Attachment 234716Attachment 234717

[ian45662]

. . . Here are a few groups shot with my chamber with paper patch. The paper targets were 200 yards. The turkeys were 385 meters.


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[ian45662]

. . These are some groups shot with the grease groove Creedmoor bullet. The one target is 10 shots. The paper patch load seems to hold it together at distance a little better than the Creedmoor load does.


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[ian45662]

It’s also worth mentioning that my c sharps came with a 16 twist green mountain barrel.


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[Distant Thunder]

Kurt and Ian,

Those are indeed some good looking targets. The turkey group says a lot about how well you load is working, Ian.

I can't say that I have shot any really outstanding groups at 200 yards with my .45-70 paper patch rifle, I really haven't shot it at 200 yards for groups since I got it up and running. There is however no doubt in my mind that those paper patch bullets hold up better as the range gets extended than any grease groove bullet I ever shot in competition. PPB have less drag and that alone makes them go the distance better. They are superior to GG on the target range.

With PPB I haven't had to clean lead out of my barrel after a match either, that wasn't an uncommon thing to have to do with greasers. With my .45-90 I often had to clean lead out between relays! The GG bullet I used was a little lube challenged, but it shot very well as long as I kept the lead cleaned out.