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Thread: 45-70 for competition?

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    There is a lot of good info above from very knowledgeable people. I'm shooting a Pedersoli with PP and here is what I discovered. My first attempts with PP were terrible accuracy wise. The Pedersoli has a longer than standard chamber 2.129 instead of 2.100. With the bore size PP boolit the back of the boolit would bump up in the gap between the end of the chamber and end of standard brass cutting the back off of the PP and pushing the boolit on through. I got some 45-90 brass and cut it down to fit the chamber and Viola great accuracy.
    We have a limited number of long range matches around us but we do have one 1200yd match and I have used the 45-70 out that far and have beaten 45-90s so I don't feel handicapped by it. This is my first year shooting PP in a cartridge rifle although I have used it in my Gibbs ML for several years.
    Prior to this year I was shooting GG boolits for those matches. At 1000yd the PP boolit shoots 10 MOA flatter than the GG. I can get 76gr of Old Eynsford 2F in the case with about .180 of compression and .250 of the boolit base in the case.

    Bob
    Thanks. Good info. If it does turn out to have a long chamber, I'll probably just have it reamed to 45/90. If I'm going to have to buy 45/90 brass, I might as well shoot 45/90. I guess I'll just have to play with it and see.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    That is another thing. I don't know if I want to cast or swage. I can get corbin R-series dies for my rockchucker for not much more than a good custom mold.
    The R dies will not do the job in a Rockchucker, they barely will do a soft pistol bullet. I still have C&H pistol dies on the shelf and they barely did those.
    I have two Corbin presses Daves and Richard's and several boxes of dies for each. Yes they swage a fine heavy bullet but like Brent said the moulds you can get now days will cast a bullet every bit as good as a swaged. My swage presses just sit and collect dust.
    As far as the .45-70 caliber doing the job give it a chance and you will find out that it will get the job done, and later on if you feel you need a larger caliber this can be fixed by renting a throating reamer or buying one for less than $100 and yo can use a T handle if you don't have a lathe and make it even into a .45-120, but I will suggest stoping at a 2.4/.45-90.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    At 1000yd the PP boolit shoots 10 MOA flatter than the GG.
    10 MOA!? I just realized, that's over 100 inches! That works out to 8 feet 4 inches! It really makes that much of a difference!?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    ... I can get 76gr of Old Eynsford 2F in the case with about .180 of compression and .250 of the boolit base in the case.

    Bob
    have you tried seating at .100 and getting more powder in the case?
    NRA PATRIOT LIFE ~ NRA RSO ~ Black Powder Gang ~ Traditional Muzzleloading Association ~ Buffalo Rifles ~ Trad Gang
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ~ liberos vivere, mori libero ~ The .45-70 is the only government I trust.

  5. #25
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    So. If cast is just as good or better than swaged, here's another question. Nose pour or base pour?

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Base pour if you figure out what length of bullet you want to use. Nose pour if you want to play with the length to see what your rifle will shoot the best.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    have you tried seating at .100 and getting more powder in the case?
    Shoots so good I didn't see the point although I can get 79gr in the case. Beside around here there are few places and matches past mid range. Most 1000yd matches are 8+ hours drive from me.

    Bob
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  8. #28
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    You donít want to try shooting it first before you make it a 90?


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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundermaker View Post
    Thanks. Good info. If it does turn out to have a long chamber, I'll probably just have it reamed to 45/90. If I'm going to have to buy 45/90 brass, I might as well shoot 45/90. I guess I'll just have to play with it and see.
    i would suggest, that since yer a newbie of sorts to these kinda of guns, take the time to load and shoot it as it is. another thought is that loading PPB cartridges will yield a virtual .45-90 because instead of 70 grains of powder charge you'll get in excess of 80 grains. my current .45-70 PPB load is 83 grains of swiss 1-1/2f under a 523 grain slick, and that's with only .060" compression and a single .062" LDPE wad. my sharps' chamber has a custom, tight PPB ream, which actually means at a maximum powder charge it'll have less powder than with a standard .45-70 gov't ream. take yer time and get to know yer gun; and more importantly, how to best load for it.
    NRA PATRIOT LIFE ~ NRA RSO ~ Black Powder Gang ~ Traditional Muzzleloading Association ~ Buffalo Rifles ~ Trad Gang
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ~ liberos vivere, mori libero ~ The .45-70 is the only government I trust.

  10. #30
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    getting started

    You need to take that gun to the matches, you can load smokeless the guys here shoot Accurate 5744 if your set up to reload. They will get you going from there the people there will teach you what to do and you can switch to Black powder, you don't have to paper patch That takes a lot of time when loading to shoot matches, once you start loading for matches you will not enjoy the marathon loading session, that's a lot of bullets to load. Black powder takes longer then smokeless in every aspect. I would hope your barrel is good to go mine was and could shoot like a tack. I checked it with a bore scope,,,the rife-ling was bad in my barrel so I had a 34" Krieger put on it by C Sharps the turn around time was fast.

    I shoot Goex . I bought it many years ago from Coonie's Explosives & Black Powder Inc. Its best to cast your own bullets You can buy them ready to load if your using smokeless. Every body here has good advice you need to get loading and shooting, you have to build a log for your sights wright it down take a picture of it so you don't loose it or for get it at home, Ive done that. They don't allow gas checks here, at Tressel Valley long shots. in ND. I shoot with them.

    I shoot a 440gr chicken bullet 545gr silhouette bullet and a 575gr NASA bullet the first 2 would work good for you, my moulds are from Old West Bullet Moulds
    Bernie will walk you through what you need he has a web sight. You can spend a fortune to get everything, then try and learn what and what not to-do its fun but if you buy bullets and start loading smokeless you will be ahead of the game, and pick the rest up as you meet people.
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  11. #31
    Boolit Master Randy C's Avatar
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    That NASA BULLET works good in a long chamber. it works good in 4570 brass. You may be able to buy some and see how they shoot.
    You wont know if its going to led up unless you try it.
    Last edited by Randy C; 01-09-2019 at 12:25 PM.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Randy C's Avatar
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    rfd

    rfd I'm interested in what and how you load/shoot your chamber. I had a new 34" Krieger put on 4570 sharps it has a standard 2.10 inch chamber. I was going to experiment this year, This chamber is tighter then my last the Nasa bullet don't fit its to long. if you have time send me some info, I don't want to go off subject here unless you think it will help him. I shoot GOEX cartridge grade.
    or Boz330 info requested on your load.

    Thank you for the pm and the links rfd
    Last edited by Randy C; 01-09-2019 at 12:18 PM. Reason: or Boz330 info requested

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Randy C's Avatar
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    I hope your a big boy or you can take a punch 45-90 kicks so does the 45-110,,

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy C View Post
    rfd I'm interested in what and how you load/shoot your chamber. I had a new 34" Krieger put on 4570 sharps it has a standard 2.10 inch chamber. I was going to experiment this year, This chamber is tighter then my last the Nasa bullet don't fit its to long. if you have time send me some info, I don't want to go off subject here unless you think it will help him. I shoot GOEX cartridge grade.
    or Boz330 info requested on your load.

    Thank you for the pm and the links rfd
    Randy, I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for but for the paper patch load I fire formed the Starline 45-90 cases and then trimmed to 2.129. I neck size the case with a Lyman die. I use lg pistol primers with .006 primer wad in the bottom of the case. 76gr of Old Eynsford 2F, .060 poly wad and compress to give me .250 of the boolit in the case. The boolit is 535gr and of a design that a buddy of mine came up with formed in a pound die. After patching it is .450 and a slip fit in the case which I put a slight taper crimp on so the boolit doesn't fall out of it's own weight. After firing I run one damp patch and a dry patch through the bore.
    My GG load is the same except that I use a Leeth-Gordon 545gr boolit and is about .001 interference fit in the neck sized case. I use WW cases but the fact that they are short of the chamber length doesn't seem to make any difference. For a mid range load with less recoil I drop back to 68gr of OE 2F.

    Bob
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  15. #35
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    Randy, The nasa is designed to load long and fit in the bore. I shoot them in 38 55 and 40 65. the nose should just slide in the bore with size to size or only a couple thousandths clearance. I would try the nose in the muzzle for a quick test and better would be to mike the nose and pin gage the bore at the chamber end. You may need to get a sizer made to size the nose section down a little to fit your bore. I have the Nasa by Bernie Roweles at Old West moulds. HIs Brass 2 cavities. They cast a great bullet. In 45 cal I'm shooting his 550 grn silhouette bullet. in 45-70 its recoils is heavy but not to bad in the 45-90 recoil is pretty stout.

    If you have a lee sizer die in .451 you might try sizing the nose down in it to the driving bands and see if that helps. A .449 die could be made for this pretty easily

  16. #36
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    I've just about decided to try the "Money" bullet for silhouette. It looks like I'm going to have to work up 3 loads, GG bp, PPbp, and smokeless plinking load. That's ok I guess. I shoot high power too, and some of those guys have a different load for each distance in the same match.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian45662 View Post
    You don’t want to try shooting it first before you make it a 90?


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    Sure. I'm going to have a chamber cast done to see what kind of chamber and throat dimensions I'm dealing with.

  18. #38
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    . It will probably look a lot like this.


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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian45662 View Post
    . It will probably look a lot like this.


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    It's a factory gun, and factories have tolerance ranges.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Randy C's Avatar
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    Lots of help and good people here.

    Thundermaker My rifle is a cimmeron/Pedersoli it had a bad 34" heavy round barrel from the factory they would of replaced it but i wanted a Krieger I had it reamed tight/standard 2.10 I figured my Nasa bullet would fit its a long slender bullet and wider at the lube groves Bernie Roweles of Old West Bullet moulds is going to send me some smaller size die's for it to use on the nose so it can extend into the chamber like it did with my old barrel he's also sending me a Ledzepplin mould to try,,the nose is long and narrower on it. I grew up around there when i was a kid he showed me how to cast i feel like I'm buying local there.

    I make a casting of my barrel and chamber with Cerosafe its soft and easy to melt there are several videos on you tube if you want to try it. I oil my barrel and stuff some rags in the barrel to contain the Cerosafe. I do the same when I cast the chamber it's real soft, I knock it out with a cleaning rod, I buy a lot of stuff from Buffalo arms they will help you on the phone they specialize in what were doing. (Using Cerosafe you should oil everything up good it comes out easy)

    I will be glade to send you some bullets if you want to try something different. I'm going to try different things this year, when I'm not competing,,there is a lot of places to shoot here with in 2 hours, I'm 5 min from our local range.
    Good luck and i hope you get started shooting soon its a blast and addictive. Its expensive to get everything going compared to shooting a normal hunting rifle. I have thousands invested I like my spotting scope and phone adapter I can video my shots especially when I'm buy my self, Its nice to play it back and see your groups at long range 725yds here or out to 1200 in some places. 45-70 can do it. I have a Labradar and 1 mile plus camera and a Amp annealer.

    It has taken me a lot of years to get where I am and I'm still learning I have for got so much over the years I worked 16 hr days for 10 yrs in the oil field and didn't have much time to shoot. I'm semi retired this year.
    Good luck send a pm if you want or need something.

    Bernie Raweles shoots 3 Pedersoli rifles I talked to him today and he has never had one led up he shoots the same bullets i do. if you send him a email or leave him a message he may be able to answer any question you have in person, He always calls me back, He has a full time job plus his mould business.

    I just Cerosafe my chamber it came out to 45.85 That's why last years bullets don't fit. I'm waiting on smaller sizing die's.
    Last edited by Randy C; 01-13-2019 at 01:53 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check