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Thread: reducing my 45-70 load

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    reducing my 45-70 load

    I sold my 45-70 to my brother, and was planning on keeping on reloading for him. He does not, however, appreciate the recoil of my load I had worked up. I was loading an Accurate bullet (460-415V or something like that) to about 1550-1600 fps. That was more than he wanted to put his shoulder through. I think I have 2 choices here...load that 415 grain lower, or get some bullets in the 300-350 grain range and run those at 1500 fps or so. Application, this is strictly a hunting rifle. Max shot somewhere in the 150 yard range. Species will be mainly Pa whitetail, but he does want capability of taking it black bear hunting. I am seriously considering option B since if I load the 415 grainers down, I may need to use fillers, which I do not want to do. So I guess my question is 2 prong, which option do I do, and what is needed for my application? I am thinking either a 300 at 1500fps or the 415 at 1200 fps should do what I need it to do.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    First of all, you don't need to use fillers if you load it down. I load most of my loads "down" to begin with. Try using Unique powder and your current bullets. If he can't shoot that load, he's absolutely trying to use the wrong gun. There's really no shame in admitting that you don't like the recoil of the 45-70 at any power level. He should be looking at a different caliber altogether. Get him something a lot smaller. Many, many, many choices to choose from to go deer and bear hunting that don't beat you up. I shoot several different 45-70 rifles and most of my loads are 405g going along at a very modest 1400-1450fps. I have yet to recover even one bullet from a deer regardless of the distance shot or the angle. I've shot a ton of reduced loads and they still thump a little bit. Only positional sensitive powders need fillers and there aren't even a lot of those. I've loaded the same load with and without fillers and rarely can I tell the difference in accuracy. Most any load with a decent bullet will shoot good in this caliber. Again, he sounds recoil sensitive and should be using something else entirely.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
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    My favorite boolit is a 415 grain (my alloy ~ it's supposed to be 420 grains) -- 460-420 -- and I load near the top of the trap door listings with 4198 & 3031. RL-7 is right up there too, for me. I've gotten whitetails, hogs, & black bear with that loadings. Recoil isn't a problem. You / he can always install a soft recoil pad or mercury tube to lessen recoil. Very accurate.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    Hickok's Avatar
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    Buy a box of factory 300 gr jacketed 45/70 ammo and let him shoot them. They have moderate recoil. If he is comfortable with the 300 gr factory loads, you can get a 300 to 350 gr mold, and start making some good cast boolits reloads.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting

  5. #5
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Try 12 Unique with that bullet, very light recoil and still will drop anything he hits with it.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    I don't think you mentioned the rifle but if it is a Marlin 1895 try a big charge Imr 3031 with 415 grain bullet. This sounds weird but it will shoot flatter and not kick as hard because of the characteristics of the medium speed powder. It will be very accurate and keep you safe from double charging a case especially if you're reloading for someone else.
    Last edited by pmer; 01-04-2019 at 05:25 PM.
    Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    I understand the reaction to recoil. I am using unique to get 1250 FPS with a 405 grain bullet and I believe 1325 with a 350 grain bullet. I like the 350 grain more as it has less recoil in my H&R repro trapdoor officers ( with leather recoil pad) and 1895 SS marlin. I am plinking steel plates at 200 yards with those loads so 150 is doable with a 100 yard zero.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Gun is a Marlin 1895 SBL

  9. #9
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    If you use the starting loads for the trapdoor Springfield you should get recoil that anyone would be ok with.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    There is a recoil calculator that will give you a feel for how much reduction you get by reducing bullet weight and/or velocity. If It were me, I would dial down the load of the bullet you have until you find a load that he likes. If the trajectory is not flat enough, you can calculate the velocity a lighter bullet yields to equal the recoil level he wants; and then see if the faster bullet gains much in yardage.

    It will save you investing in a different mold to determine if the caliber is suitable for him.
    Don Verna


  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Unique and 2400 work well for downloading 400ish grain bullets in the .45/70. My wife killed her first deer with a 405gr Lee boolit over 14gr of Unique. I heard her shoot and then the boolit hit from a quarter mile away.

    The starting Trapdoor loads are a really good place to start as previously mentioned.

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    Smkummer- how much unique are you using to get to 1250? I load 12 grains with my 405 grain bullets, and figured they are maybe hitting 1100. I should really get a chronograph...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pworley1 View Post
    If you use the starting loads for the trapdoor Springfield you should get recoil that anyone would be ok with.
    I agree 100% with this. Before .45-70s stared getting popular again, the only published loads were for trapdoor guns. That is plenty of knock down power and doesn’t kick that hard. I will bring down a brown bear and has many times with a 405grn boolit. Start with a box of factory loads as Hickok says.

    Make sure the shooter knows how to position it properly and most of all, it shouldn’t just sit against the shoulder/chest, it should be pulled in tight.

    I said shoulder/chest, because the shoulder is not really the right way to think about it. It needs to be more inside towards the chest, where there is muscle to help take up the shock. Maybe others see it differently. Feel free to comment. That’s the best way I can explain it.

  14. #14
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    Also have him stand with sticks or sit when he shoots. The bench is the worst way to shoot a hard recoil rifle - have him where his shoulder can move with the recoil just like when hunting. It makes a world of difference. I don't shoot my 405 Win. off the bench.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Before .45-70s stared getting popular again, the only published loads were for trapdoor guns.
    Oldest manual I have is 1960. It has two pressure levels. Trapdoor loads and Winchester 1886 loads.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-05-2019 at 04:37 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Oldest manual I have is 1960. It has two pressure levels. Trapdoor loads and Winchester 1886 loads.
    I guess I should have said published in my Lyman manual I had at the time. I now know Elmer Kieth was doing it long before, but I hadn’t seen any data on it back then.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    12 grains of Unique, Red Dot or 700-X are all good, also safe in a Trapdoor, approximating the 55-grain BP carbine load, about 1000 fps. in a 22" Handi Rifle.

    I would not exceed 14 grains of Unique in a Trapdoor with 405-grain bullet, but that is also a very satisfactory load.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I guess I should have said published in my Lyman manual I had at the time. I now know Elmer Kieth was doing it long before, but I hadn’t seen any data on it back then.
    In the Lyman 42nd edition published in 1960 it has two categories for 45/70. Same for 44nd and 45th. One for Trapdoors and one for Winchester 1886. Never loaded a round based on Elmer's recommendations.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-05-2019 at 05:37 PM.

  19. #19
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    Try Trailboss. Shoots great and minimal recoil. Fill case. Measure powder, take 70% and shoot. Most bullets work with this. I shoot 405 cast with no problems.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    In the Lyman 42nd edition published in 1960 it has two categories for 45/70. Same for 44nd and 45th. One for Trapdoors and one for Winchester 1886. Never loaded a round based on Elmer's recommendations.
    Well now you got me wondering about my memory. So back then, what were the factory loads loaded for? Safe for trapdoors? How hot were the loads for the Winchester?

    Wish I could find that old manual.

    Here’s what Elmer Kieth had to say loading 45-70

    http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/Ameri...ithPumpkin.pdf

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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