Is eternal life given only to believers?

[Rizzo]

Do you have any biblical references to support your statements?

This is a Theological Discussion forum. Not a Bible study forum.
There are many God loving belief systems out there.
I suspect that you may be one of those who believe that "If it isn't in the Bible, then it isn't true."
That's fine, but for me, having read the whole Bible, I find it lacking in some areas that need more clarification.

What are you hung up on?.....the issue of us being eternal beings (Spirit)?
or, that no one is sent to "hell" for eternity?

[Ickisrulz]

This is a Theological Discussion forum. Not a Bible study forum.
There are many God loving belief systems out there.
I suspect that you may be one of those who believe that "If it isn't in the Bible, then it isn't true."
That's fine, but for me, having read the whole Bible, I find it lacking in some areas that need more clarification.

What are you hung up on?.....the issue of us being eternal beings (Spirit)?
or, that no one is sent to "hell" for eternity?

Yes, since I am a Christian, the Bible is my authority for faith and conduct.

So where did you get your ideas?

[Rizzo]

Yes, since I am a Christian, the Bible is my authority for faith and conduct.

So where did you get your ideas?

Ideas?
Do you get your "ideas" from the Bible?.....or are they beliefs?
Do you read other readings to get some clarification on what is said in the Bible, so that hopefully you will get a better understanding of what is written?
I think that many do, including myself.
The apostles certainly didn't understand some of what Jesus was preaching.
To paraphrase.................While Jesus was preaching/talking, some apostles quietly said to each other...What the heck is He talking about?
Jesus' intuitive mind could "hear" that discussion and addressed the apostles concerns.

BTW, still waiting on some answers from my previous reply:
"What are you hung up on?.....the issue of us being eternal beings (Spirit)?
or, that no one is sent to "hell" for eternity?"

[rl69]

This is a Theological Discussion forum. Not a Bible study forum.
There are many God loving belief systems out there.
I suspect that you may be one of those who believe that "If it isn't in the Bible, then it isn't true."
That's fine, but for me, having read the whole Bible, I find it lacking in some areas that need more clarification.

What are you hung up on?.....the issue of us being eternal beings (Spirit)?
or, that no one is sent to "hell" for eternity?

If we are eternal beings where are non believers going to spend eternity ?

[Ickisrulz]

Do you read other readings to get some clarification on what is said in the Bible, so that hopefully you will get a better understanding of what is written?

BTW, still waiting on some answers from my previous reply:
"What are you hung up on?.....the issue of us being eternal beings (Spirit)?
or, that no one is sent to "hell" for eternity?"

Yes, I do. I even have a degree in biblical studies.

1. “Our true nature is Spirit, an image of God.” Being made in the image of God means we have intellect, will and emotion. It does not mean we have the same type of existence. We have a physical body that places limits on us. For example, we can only be in one place at a time. A physical body is essential to man’s being. Man is not complete without it. We have one during our life on earth and will receive a resurrected body in the future.

2. “We, as Spirit, already are "eternal" beings, like God.” This statement assume a quality about spirits that we just do not know (i.e., spirits are eternal). Only God is eternal within himself. Eternal means no beginning and no end, so a difference is already apparent. All life comes from God and is perpetuated by his life. We have absolutely nothing without God and this includes our existence.


3. “No one is sent to hell for eternity.” You didn’t clarify this statement. There are three schools of thought on what God will do with the wicked. The first is that the unsaved will go to hell forever and ever where they will be punished continually for their sins. The second is that the unsaved will be punished for a period of time and then be obliterated. The final is that eventually everyone will be saved. I lean toward the second explanation. Where do you?

[Rizzo]

Yes, I do. I even have a degree in biblical studies.

1. “Our true nature is Spirit, an image of God.” Being made in the image of God means we have intellect, will and emotion. It does not mean we have the same type of existence. We have a physical body that places limits on us. For example, we can only be in one place at a time. A physical body is essential to man’s being. Man is not complete without it. We have one during our life on earth and will receive a resurrected body in the future.

2. “We, as Spirit, already are "eternal" beings, like God.” This statement assume a quality about spirits that we just do not know (i.e., spirits are eternal). Only God is eternal within himself. Eternal means no beginning and no end, so a difference is already apparent. All life comes from God and is perpetuated by his life. We have absolutely nothing without God and this includes our existence.


3. “No one is sent to hell for eternity.” You didn’t clarify this statement. There are three schools of thought on what God will do with the wicked. The first is that the unsaved will go to hell forever and ever where they will be punished continually for their sins. The second is that the unsaved will be punished for a period of time and then be obliterated. The final is that eventually everyone will be saved. I lean toward the second explanation. Where do you?

Getting back to the statement "If it isn't in the Bible it isn't true."
OK, but yet we seek clarification or insight what was said or we read other's opinions on the meaning of a particular chapter or verse in the Bible and hopefully the fog clears and we have a better understanding on the topic. All is good.
However, we find that understanding from another source, such as from another book. But because those words that gave us the understanding were not in the Bible, then by the above statement it makes our other source untrue.
That statement is too broad, in my opinion. Einstein's theory of relativity isn't in the Bible so does that make it untrue?
See what I mean?

Regarding 1. & 2.:
To me you are suggesting we are a physical being. That is true in a sense but what about the generalization that when we die we go to heaven? What goes to heaven? There is a part of us that "lives" on after death. It is not the physical body but the Spirit, Soul, call it what you want. It is that which is eternal.

3.
Excuse my ignorance but I do not recall the Bible giving three possible explanations on what happens to us (our Spirit, Soul, etc.) after we die.
"...the unsaved will go to hell forever and ever where they will be punished continually for their sins."
By unsaved I suspect that you mean any non-Christians. That is, everyone goes to hell for eternity if you are not Christian.
Ah-h-h, I don't think so. This would include a rabbi that dedicated his life to God and spreading His Word to others and helping them find God. Then when he dies, because he was not Christian he goes to hell.
The Bible passage that states "....no one gets to the Father except through me (Christ)" is the mantra that Christians cite that is grossly misunderstood, in my opinion. It makes a statement that some Christians use to arrogantly say that their belief is the true belief and everyone else is going to hell.

"The second is that the unsaved will be punished for a period of time and then be obliterated."
I realize that this is what you believe but, respectfully, this makes no sense to me. Make them suffer first, then kill'em. Nope.

"The final is that eventually everyone will be saved."
This is my belief.

[Rizzo]

If we are eternal beings where are non believers going to spend eternity ?

See my reply above for further info, but:
"The final is that eventually everyone will be saved."
This is my belief.

[Ickisrulz]

Getting back to the statement "If it isn't in the Bible it isn't true."
OK, but yet we seek clarification or insight what was said or we read other's opinions on the meaning of a particular chapter or verse in the Bible and hopefully the fog clears and we have a better understanding on the topic. All is good.
However, we find that understanding from another source, such as from another book. But because those words that gave us the understanding were not in the Bible, then by the above statement it makes our other source untrue.
That statement is too broad, in my opinion. Einstein's theory of relativity isn't in the Bible so does that make it untrue?
See what I mean?

Regarding 1. & 2.:
To me you are suggesting we are a physical being. That is true in a sense but what about the generalization that when we die we go to heaven? What goes to heaven? There is a part of us that "lives" on after death. It is not the physical body but the Spirit, Soul, call it what you want. It is that which is eternal.

3.
Excuse my ignorance but I do not recall the Bible giving three possible explanations on what happens to us (our Spirit, Soul, etc.) after we die.
"...the unsaved will go to hell forever and ever where they will be punished continually for their sins."
By unsaved I suspect that you mean any non-Christians. That is, everyone goes to hell for eternity if you are not Christian.
Ah-h-h, I don't think so. This would include a rabbi that dedicated his life to God and spreading His Word to others and helping them find God. Then when he dies, because he was not Christian he goes to hell.
The Bible passage that states "....no one gets to the Father except through me (Christ)" is the mantra that Christians cite that is grossly misunderstood, in my opinion. It makes a statement that some Christians use to arrogantly say that their belief is the true belief and everyone else is going to hell.

"The second is that the unsaved will be punished for a period of time and then be obliterated."
I realize that this is what you believe but, respectfully, this makes no sense to me. Make them suffer first, then kill'em. Nope.

"The final is that eventually everyone will be saved."
This is my belief.

I don't believe I've ever said that "if it's not in the Bible, it's not true." I said the Bible is the authority for faith and conduct for Christians. All truth is God's truth.

I guess we'll disagree on whether a soul is everlasting and whether or not man is essentially a spirit. I made my case as best I could.

The Bible does not state three possibilities for the lost. People have interpreted the material in three different ways. The least biblical of the three is the eventual salvation of everyone. The most biblical, in my judgement, is limited punishment for sins and eventual annihilation. God warned Adam and Eve that death would follow disobedience (not eternal torment). John the Baptist's and Jesus' comments about the wicked being burned up like agricultural waste suggests they will cease to exist. When we combine these ideas with the fact that the New Testament clearly talks about degrees of punishment at judgement day, we arrive at "punishment followed by obliteration."

The Bible's message is that all members of the human race are lost. In order to be saved, a person must hear the Gospel, accept it and make a commitment to God through Christ. I see no loopholes in Scripture despite the fact the some people ostensibly live righteous and good lives (but have never heard or have rejected the Gospel). I know this is a hard thing for people to accept. This is the reason the Gospel has been spread over the last 2,000 years at Christ's command.

[Rizzo]

I don't believe I've ever said that "if it's not in the Bible, it's not true." I said the Bible is the authority for faith and conduct for Christians. All truth is God's truth.

I guess we'll disagree on whether a soul is everlasting and whether or not man is essentially a spirit. I made my case as best I could.

The Bible does not state three possibilities for the lost. People have interpreted the material in three different ways. The least biblical of the three is the eventual salvation of everyone. The most biblical, in my judgement, is limited punishment for sins and eventual annihilation. God warned Adam and Eve that death would follow disobedience (not eternal torment). John the Baptist's and Jesus' comments about the wicked being burned up like agricultural waste suggests they will cease to exist. When we combine these ideas with the fact that the New Testament clearly talks about degrees of punishment at judgement day, we arrive at "punishment followed by obliteration."

The Bible's message is that all members of the human race are lost. In order to be saved, a person must hear the Gospel, accept it and make a commitment to God through Christ. I see no loopholes in Scripture despite the fact the some people ostensibly live righteous and good lives (but have never heard or have rejected the Gospel). I know this is a hard thing for people to accept. This is the reason the Gospel has been spread over the last 2,000 years at Christ's command.

Good discussion of sharing beliefs/ideas.
Thanks.

[rl69]

10/4 ..... thank you

[Ohiopatriot]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[wmitty]

I guess my next question would be: how many different ways to eternal life is our Creator obligated to provide for mankind? If we are all rebels and sinners who have committed cosmic treason against our Creator by our disobedience and are all crying out for justice rather than the mercy our God extends to those He is pleased to give it to, what will that justice consist of?

[1hole]

....Not even Jesus knows when He'll be making his debut-but only His Father.

Really? But maybe you have always always been taught more about that verse than what it says and, therefore, what Jesus actually meant when he said it.

Jesus, the self identified son of man, made that statement when he was still alive on earth and living as a man, i.e., human. Doesn't the very definition of our spiritual triune God demand that each person of the Trinity be all holy, all powerful and all knowing?

We KNOW Jesus set his (spiritual) Godship aside when he was conceived. He was born, grew up, learned, lived, preached and died as a human under the Law. He consistently referred to himself as the son of man and, as a man, he only preached what the Father told him to reveal.

As a human, Jesus didn't know when he would return ... and that's all he said. But now, as fully God, I'd bet both he AND the Holy Spirit know and have always known when he will return.

Consider: IF, as God, Jesus knows "all things" but doesn't know when he will return wouldn't that single lack of knowledge disqualify him as being fully God? I mean if Jesus, Son Of God spirit, ever was and remains ignorant of any one fact could he truly be co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit? I doubt you actually question that he is.

We should never ignore anything in scripture. But, ... we should never go beyond what it actually says NOR can we rightly ignore the context of what we read in order to support our beliefs. There be more than enough dragons and religious cults in the world to do that!

[barnabus]

All souls have eternal life.
Some will spend it in Heaven, the rest will spend it in (the other place.)

this is truth

[Wally]

See my reply above for further info, but:
"The final is that eventually everyone will be saved."
This is my belief.

I heard a sermon from a well know Baptist preacher on this....if everyone will be saved...what was the point of the death of Jesus; why would we need a Savior?

[exile]

"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." John 6:40, N.A.S.B.

"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,..." Hebrews 9:27, N.A.S.B.

I know that I don't want to be judged for my sins, not when there is a blessed alternative, freely given, in the death and resurrection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Why would you?

As we sit here engaged in endless debate, men and women are passing into a Christ-less eternity, without hope and without God. I implore you, do not be among that number. Stop debating, and ask Christ into your heart, now. Only then can you be sure that you will have eternal life in the presence of the Father.

[cas]

You're getting it whether you like it or not, in fact you already have it and have had it.

[Rizzo]

I heard a sermon from a well know Baptist preacher on this....if everyone will be saved...what was the point of the death of Jesus; why would we need a Savior?

Well, I guess it boils down to what one believes.
A Jew believes one thing, a Hindu another, a Muslim another, a Christian yet another belief system.
Jesus died for our sins say the Christians.
Does that mean we have a free pass to heaven so we can whoop it up and party and ignore good behavior?
No, as far as I'm concerned. We are accountable for what we do (sins). There is no free pass.

So what happens when we die?
A person's belief system tells them what will happen and it varies.
For example, reincarnation believers say that we come back until we work out all the desires and bad karma we had in the previous life. Ultimately we "perfect" ourselves to a point that we can move on from this material world into the spiritual realms.

So, from your Christian outlook, I understand what you are asking, but I do not think it is that simple.
Throw in mistranslated or misunderstood Bible passages just confuses things more, in my opinion.

Lots of belief systems out there, which one is correct?
Oh, the Christian view of course!
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

[468]

Rizzo, I do think the answer is much simpler than most of us want to admit. It seems many want to declare some sort of exclusivity based on their interpretation of an ancient “ rule book”.

If one were to live one’s life by Christ’s teachings, yet never truly being aware of those teachings, is he any less a Christian than one who is well versed in the New Testiment?

Do we truly believe, or do we just accept because someone of authority, or who we think is smarter, says it’s the truth?

Salvation is for all good souls. Not just those who believe what someone else says they should.

[Rizzo]

Rizzo, I do think the answer is much simpler than most of us want to admit. It seems many want to declare some sort of exclusivity based on their interpretation of an ancient “ rule book”.

If one were to live one’s life by Christ’s teachings, yet never truly being aware of those teachings, is he any less a Christian than one who is well versed in the New Testiment?

Do we truly believe, or do we just accept because someone of authority, or who we think is smarter, says it’s the truth?

Salvation is for all good souls. Not just those who believe what someone else says they should.

I am no authority on any of this, but do have an opinion.

Regarding living ones life by Christ's teachings, without knowing Christ's teachings is somewhat confusing.
If the ideals a person lives by are found to be what Christ taught, then I would say you are on the right track.
Some would say you are not a Christian though because of things like not being baptized or "saved" or personally accepting Jesus as your personal Saviour, yada, yada, yada.

"Do we truly believe....?" Good question.
Believe definition: to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.

The "we" part is a little broad since that is bundling everyone together.
I feel that those in different belief systems firmly "believe" what their teachings say but do they (we) really know for sure? For instance, as a child we are raised in our parents culture or religious belief system and accept it as you mentioned because of "someone in authority".
That is probably also true for some Truth seekers that go to a church, or hear someone speak or read a book from someone who "knows" what the truth is, or so they say, so they latch on to what is said because it makes sense to them.

I think that we all have an intuitive feeling as to what is right or wrong despite what Rabbi Ray or Preacher Joe says.
For those that do not, then going by what life's owners manual, or "rule book" (the Bible, for some) says is a good foundational start.