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Thread: Is eternal life given only to believers?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Is eternal life given only to believers?

    In Genesis 3 vs 22-24 Adam & Eve are driven from the Garden to prevent them from eating from the tree of life. In Revelation 2 v 7 our Lord says "to the one who is victorious I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Are men mortal both physically (obviously) and spiritually? When John writes in Rev 20 v 14 that the lake of fire is the second death, it sounds as if he is saying that men are mortal and are destroyed. How do you see this ?
    There are only two kinds of men:

    1. Those who know Jesus Christ is both Creator and Sovereign Lord.

    2. Those about to learn that Jesus Christ is both Creator and Sovereign Lord.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    All souls have eternal life.
    Some will spend it in Heaven, the rest will spend it in (the other place.)
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  3. #3
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    That is a million dollar question.
    First, you would have to believe that God will shun and condemn all the righteous, honest and good people of all the other religions. I find that hard to believe.
    The passage about the good Samaritan and Jesus saying show your faith by your works, not your words come to mind.
    Just because you accept Jesus into your life doesn't guarantee a "golden ticket to heaven" if you refuse to change your way of living.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    I do not believe God would deny eternal life to non-believers. For thousands of years, many cultures were not exposed to God and for hundreds of years many were not exposed to Christ.

    My opinion is accepting Jesus serves to give us something close to a "get out of jail free" card. We accept we are not perfect and we will sin but we ask Jesus to forgive us and bear our sins on the cross He died on. Accepting Jesus does not give us the right to sin when we know we should not...some responsibility is demanded.

    Jesus serves as an example of how we should attempt to live our lives and serve others. We cannot achieve His standard but He expects us to try the best we can.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

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    Boolit Master


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    My belief is that the unsaved are obliterated from existence after receiving a punishment for their sins.

    The idea of eternal torment for the unsaved is not compatible with the character of God revealed in the Bible. Additionally, Adam and Eve were warned against death, not everlasting suffering. Jesus' teachings on the end of the wicked favor an obliteration understanding; the wicked are burned up like dead vines in a fire. They are gone.

    Those that reject God can never find the peace God wants them to. God will not let their suffering continue and destroys them for their own good and the good of his people.

  6. #6
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    My understanding is those who passed prior to Christ went to 'Abraham's Bosom' a sort of holding tank , they will receive salvation based on the law , not Grace .. In the Christian belief , God doesn't send you to hell , your rejection of him sends you there ..
    Schamankungulo

    Matt. 5:14-16

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by HollandNut View Post
    My understanding is those who passed prior to Christ went to 'Abraham's Bosom' a sort of holding tank , they will receive salvation based on the law , not Grace .. In the Christian belief , God doesn't send you to hell , your rejection of him sends you there ..
    No one ever received salvation based on the Law (AKA works). People have only pleased God through faith (Romans 4, etc.).

    Salvation can only come through the work of God through Jesus Christ. We call this grace. This goes for OT Saints too even though they lived years before Jesus' birth.

    "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Revelation 20:11-15 ESV

    Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


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    The unexamined life is not worth living----Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy


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    Don't do church but I do the Kings James Bible. In the dispensation You can only be saved by grace though faith.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyd View Post
    Don't do church but I do the Kings James Bible. In the dispensation You can only be saved by grace though faith.
    Amen...
    The unexamined life is not worth living----Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyd View Post
    Don't do church but I do the Kings James Bible. In the dispensation You can only be saved by grace though faith.
    So, how do you reconcile the fate of people from cultures that could not know of God or Jesus until missionaries visited them? For example, Native Americans, Aborigines, Orientals, Incas, etc etc. Did God create them to exclude them from eternal life? Or were they created by a different God?

    What makes our culture so special in the eyes of the Lord that He needed to sacrifice His son to save us from our sins? Is our culture so sinful that we need to be saved...and those of other cultures are less sinful and do not require Jesus for salvation?

    I wonder about these kinds of questions. I have been told how God works is something I can never understand. He has no need to explain Himself. And if He did, we could not comprehend it.

    Still, in the little pea brain He has given me, He gives me the ability to ask questions.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy


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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    So, how do you reconcile the fate of people from cultures that could not know of God or Jesus until missionaries visited them? For example, Native Americans, Aborigines, Orientals, Incas, etc etc. Did God create them to exclude them from eternal life? Or were they created by a different God?

    What makes our culture so special in the eyes of the Lord that He needed to sacrifice His son to save us from our sins? Is our culture so sinful that we need to be saved...and those of other cultures are less sinful and do not require Jesus for salvation?

    I wonder about these kinds of questions. I have been told how God works is something I can never understand. He has no need to explain Himself. And if He did, we could not comprehend it.

    Still, in the little pea brain He has given me, He gives me the ability to ask questions.
    Christ was a Jew, with dark skin and Africa looks. How do you know that the other people have not been told the truth in their our language and didn't paid it any attention to it. It may have happened 2000 years ago.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    So, how do you reconcile the fate of people from cultures that could not know of God or Jesus until missionaries visited them? For example, Native Americans, Aborigines, Orientals, Incas, etc etc. Did God create them to exclude them from eternal life? Or were they created by a different God?

    What makes our culture so special in the eyes of the Lord that He needed to sacrifice His son to save us from our sins? Is our culture so sinful that we need to be saved...and those of other cultures are less sinful and do not require Jesus for salvation?

    I wonder about these kinds of questions. I have been told how God works is something I can never understand. He has no need to explain Himself. And if He did, we could not comprehend it.

    Still, in the little pea brain He has given me, He gives me the ability to ask questions.
    What culture are you talking about? Do you think there is a Christian culture or are you thinking of the West?

    The Gospel has gone out into all the world and there are Christians in every culture I know of. Perhaps isolated groups have not been reached.

    I know that you have a different understanding of the Bible than I have. But in my reading I see no loopholes for those that have not heard the Gospel (if anyone knows differently, I'll take a look at it). This is why it is so important to carry the message to everyone. If those that have not heard get a pass, why spread the Gospel?

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    I am by no means an authority (I am a Christian though) on the Bible, I'm not a preacher and lastly I ain't judging anyone (that is God's job!) But the way it was always taught to me (Baptist), when ALL the land (everywhere) hears the gospel then Christ will launch His second coming. Not even Jesus knows when He'll be making his debut-but only His Father. I was saved when I was 11 in a little Baptist church because my little brother walked to the front when the invitation was given and I wanted what he wanted! I wasn't sorry! Of course we are human, we live around temptation everyday. We make mistakes, sin, give in to things we did before but there is still forgiveness. I'm not saying "live like you want" and sleep at night knowing you are still going to Heaven! After one is saved, the Holy Spirit follows you, lives inside you and does everything to guide your conscience. I have many times quenched or tried to muffle what that Spirit was telling me but in the end I had to come clean.

    God knows our hearts better than we do our own.

    Romans 10:9-13 ESV

    Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
    The unexamined life is not worth living----Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    This thread is a good example of the poor job that religious leaders have been doing for their flock.
    Some of you have a handle on salvation and punishment, others only know what they "believe".
    "Study to show yourself approved," remember, the soul is eternal. Where it will exist after physical death is decided by your actions while you are here on earth. Sorry, no second chances after death.
    Last edited by Hickory; 05-12-2019 at 01:29 PM.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Electric88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    So, how do you reconcile the fate of people from cultures that could not know of God or Jesus until missionaries visited them? For example, Native Americans, Aborigines, Orientals, Incas, etc etc. Did God create them to exclude them from eternal life? Or were they created by a different God?

    What makes our culture so special in the eyes of the Lord that He needed to sacrifice His son to save us from our sins? Is our culture so sinful that we need to be saved...and those of other cultures are less sinful and do not require Jesus for salvation?

    I wonder about these kinds of questions. I have been told how God works is something I can never understand. He has no need to explain Himself. And if He did, we could not comprehend it.

    Still, in the little pea brain He has given me, He gives me the ability to ask questions.
    Romans 1:20 says "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." I.e., God can/does reveal Himself to all, though it may not be through the avenue of missionaries necessarily.

    Regarding those who are not saved, the Bible makes it fairly clear that those souls will exist in state of being separated from God. That is the true torment, having the Spirit of God separated from yours, and existing without it.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    What culture are you talking about? Do you think there is a Christian culture or are you thinking of the West?

    The Gospel has gone out into all the world and there are Christians in every culture I know of. Perhaps isolated groups have not been reached.

    I know that you have a different understanding of the Bible than I have. But in my reading I see no loopholes for those that have not heard the Gospel (if anyone knows differently, I'll take a look at it). This is why it is so important to carry the message to everyone. If those that have not heard get a pass, why spread the Gospel?
    I cannot make it any clearer than my last post....sorry my communication skills are poor. Vast areas of our world were inhabited before Jesus was born and before the Bible was written. These areas, and the people therein, are not mentioned and it appears none were visited by the 12 Jesus chose to spread the Word....or their visits there were not recorded(????). So what happened to the generations of people who died before the Word was brought to them by missionaries?

    Would God **** them to Satan, or, as I understand you believe, just allow their souls to cease to exist?
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Electric88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I cannot make it any clearer than my last post....sorry my communication skills are poor. Vast areas of our world were inhabited before Jesus was born and before the Bible was written. These areas, and the people therein, are not mentioned and it appears none were visited by the 12 Jesus chose to spread the Word....or their visits there were not recorded(????). So what happened to the generations of people who died before the Word was brought to them by missionaries?

    Would God **** them to Satan, or, as I understand you believe, just allow their souls to cease to exist?
    I read a book (supplementary to the Bible) once called "Eternity in their hearts". It offered what I thought to be a sound and reasonable answer to the question of "What happens to those who never are visited by missionaries, etc". It's not very long, and is an interesting read. I'm not saying it should be viewed as gospel, but it certainly expounds on some ideas.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric88 View Post
    Romans 1:20 says "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." I.e., God can/does reveal Himself to all, though it may not be through the avenue of missionaries necessarily.

    Regarding those who are not saved, the Bible makes it fairly clear that those souls will exist in state of being separated from God. That is the true torment, having the Spirit of God separated from yours, and existing without it.
    That makes some sense. All cultures had gods or spirits....not “the” God as they could not have known of Him. These false gods stood in for God until the Word came to them. There souls would be saved even though they honored the gods they knew.

    God loves all his children. I cannot fathom a God that denies eternal life to those who would have had no way to know the Word. I may be incorrect, and what I want to believe may be false, but I hope our Father would not do that.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Electric88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    That makes some sense. All cultures had gods or spirits....not “the” God as they could not have known of Him. These false gods stood in for God until the Word came to them. There souls would be saved even though they honored the gods they knew.

    God loves all his children. I cannot fathom a God that denies eternal life to those who would have had no way to know the Word. I may be incorrect, and what I want to believe may be false, but I hope our Father would not do that.
    There is one particular story in that book about the Inca in Peru. I can't recall all the details, but there was a particular ruler at one point who allegedly believed in a god that was above all of the other gods. I forget what the original name was or how it was translated, but it was believed that this translation alluded to the one true God as we know Him. Because the rulers of those tribes were seen almost as deities themselves, they were able to shape how the people worshipped. This particular ruler was able to steer his people to worship the one god and left the other ones on the wayside. It was all reversed later by other rulers, but so it goes.

    Again, this is all recounting and should be taken with a grain of salt. But there are plenty of wild stories out there about peoples in secluded regions who receive "visitations" of a sort that would indicate they were of God and had knowledge of Him.

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