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Thread: BP in 1800s

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huvius View Post
    Here is a photo of some black powder I took out of an Eley 450/400 2-3/8” cartridge, probably from the 1880s.
    The powder was quite compressed but came out with a pick.
    The granules are very hard and there wasnt much in the way of fines in the powder.
    I could load this powder in a cartridge and give her a go as a comparison so some modern powder or even shoot a couple cartridges over the chronograph to see if they are close to the published velocities of the time. Hate to waste the cool copper tubed boolits they have though...




    On another note, I was recently reading about a new (ish) black powder from South Africa called Obatex.
    There is some information about it here:
    http://www.bpsu.co.za/

    Interestingly, they claim very reduced charges for duplication of standard velocities yet claim to be a traditional type of black powder!
    I don’t know how their performance is possible for a true black powder.
    Pawlonia charcoal? it would give a much less dense powder and supposed to be much faster burn - the SAfrican blurb says reduced by weight ......there a couple of makers on this forum claiming better velocity than Swiss - I will claim cleaner burn - still leaves a bit of a question mark????

  2. #42
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    obatex compression sensitivity an issue that creates loading complexity?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #43
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    I tried to find Obatex the the link given. The first link works, but not the ones to the BP. I haven’t googled it yet.

    Interesting to learn that they made creosote out of beech wood. That’s why my stove pipe gets clogged so much when I burn beech.

  4. #44
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    Here is the posted trials of the new OBATEX.

    http://https://www.bpsu.co.za/BPSU_Newsflashes/2016/BPSU%20Newsflash%207%20of%202016.pdf


    Here is what it looks like in a picture of an add..

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Marko
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  5. #45
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    Reducing BP fouling in cartridge arms is often a function of several factors other than specific characteristics of the powder itself. I shoot an original Springfield trapdoor in 45-70 with BP handloads for extended range sessions and never wipe the bore. Accuracy is great. I think that the secret is a heavy 500 grain boolit of proper diameter loaded with a compressed powder charge and a heavy crimp. Magnum primers and a slightly enlarged flash hole also. The original style boolit at .458 diameter is cast 20-1 lead/tin and SPG lube in the grooves. I use Goex powder mostly and Swiss sometimes; Both work great with Swiss being a little cleaner. With properly loaded ammo you can shoot this rifle all day long without wiping the bore...

  6. #46
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    I have a lot more questions than answers about the RSA powder and in the period from 2016 until now this is the first I have heard of it. I would guess they are not trying to export their powder and I can not imagine building a powder plant just for the meager consumption of RSA needs would pay.
    Lots of questions.
    All tests were muzzle loader based and no cartridge loading was included in the 2016 info. The RSA BP shooters are largely ML and not so much BPCR.
    Chill Wills

  7. #47
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    Yes, makes me wonder if the Obatex would pass muster for competition in England or the US.
    I will contact a couple friends in RSA and see what the status of that powder is.
    The RSA is getting to be quite a ****show overall lately though...

    The cartridge tests are here:

    http://www.bpsu.co.za/Obatex%202%20-...%20numbers.pdf

    And a test in a Colt 1911

    http://www.bpsu.co.za/Obatex%203%20-...ber%202017.pdf

  8. #48
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    I can’t get any of the links posted on Obatex to open. Do they work for others ?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I can’t get any of the links posted on Obatex to open. Do they work for others ?
    the links posted by huvius work

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=indian joe;4552744]the links posted by huvius work[/QUOTE

    This is what I get when I try either link. I can’t understand it, if it works for others.

    « This site can’t be reached

    www.bpsu.co.za unexpectedly closed the connection. »

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=GregLaROCHE;4552779]
    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    the links posted by huvius work[/QUOTE

    This is what I get when I try either link. I can’t understand it, if it works for others.

    « This site can’t be reached

    www.bpsu.co.za unexpectedly closed the connection. »
    try again - I just spent half an hour cruising the site using the link from your last post - maybe dont like your browser ??? I am using firefox

  12. #52
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    That Obetex stuff sounds like a South African version of Blackhorn 209
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    That Obetex stuff sounds like a South African version of Blackhorn 209
    Agree 100%
    Not BP

    I think RSA is trying to do the best they can in light of not being able to get in real powder. I don't blame them. I strongly think you will never see any of this powder here in USA. I could be wrong.
    Chill Wills

  14. #54
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    The question is, if this powder becomes common in the long range ML circles in South Africa, how will it effect or compromise their eligibility in international competition?
    Say, if SA hosts an international match, will their home team be allowed to use it? They claim it to be genuine black powder...

  15. #55
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    I expect Southern Herd Professionals did a lot of reloading as evidenced by the records of Rath and T. E. Jackson at Ft. Griffin. They sold a lot of lead, powder, and primers. On the other hand it appears all sold quite a bit of ammo too.

    I'm with whoever it was that guessed most buffalo weren't shot at ranges much over 200-300 yards and they weren't so much worried about fouling influencing minute of buffalo as they were overheating the barrels. A canteen of water and spare rifle solved that or, if need be , an overfull bladder.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=indian joe;4552800]
    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post

    try again - I just spent half an hour cruising the site using the link from your last post - maybe dont like your browser ??? I am using firefox
    I’ve tried a number of times and even emailed the association in South Africa. I can only have internet by satellite where I live. If a page takes too long to load it times out. I think that must be what is happening, since it works for everyone else.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huvius View Post
    The question is, if this powder becomes common in the long range ML circles in South Africa, how will it effect or compromise their eligibility in international competition?
    Say, if SA hosts an international match, will their home team be allowed to use it? They claim it to be genuine black powder...
    If RSA hosts an international match that is the only powder everyone will be using.

    Teams arriving on airplanes, that would be everyone, is given powder by the host country because you can not fly with enough loaded ammo (eleven pounds) or loose powder. Loaded ammo is total weight, brass, powder and bullets.

    And having seen the what it is made of, bless their hearts for having to live in an oppressed country, it is not real BP by any stretch, regardless what someone calls it.

    This is no knock on the good people of RSA. They are just responding to the crummy rules in their former country.
    Chill Wills

  18. #58
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Agree 100%
    Not BP

    I think RSA is trying to do the best they can in light of not being able to get in real powder. I don't blame them. I strongly think you will never see any of this powder here in USA. I could be wrong.
    As I understand the Blackhorn 209 stuff it is a percentage of black, this RSA stuff looks to be about the same. Just modern interpretation of the long gone King's semismokless, and Les smoke powders.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    If RSA hosts an international match that is the only powder everyone will be using.
    Not sure about that.
    Wano, Swiss and Elephant look to be somewhat available in RSA per the comparison made in the Obatex article.
    My guess is most competitors are using Swiss and would do so in SA too.


  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huvius View Post
    Not sure about that.
    Wano, Swiss and Elephant look to be somewhat available in RSA per the comparison made in the Obatex article.
    My guess is most competitors are using Swiss and would do so in SA too.

    I'm sure enough.

    RSA can not get regular shipments into the country. It is politics. Not transportation or price.

    Over the last two decades RSA has had many dry spells between shipments getting into the country. There were periods of shortages where there wasn't any powder to be had at any price. This includes Swiss and Wono.
    Elephant??? ...it has not been produced in almost twenty years. The few cans left in the world, however many that might be, are getting to be collectors items.

    Their ongoing difficulties keeping and replacing a regular supply may likely have been what caused them to start in country production of a workable substitute. I am seeing info on this now that goes back 15 or more years.
    Chill Wills

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check