First deer(s) with cast boolits! Used my devastators!!!

[500Linebaughbuck]

The first and last time I used a nosler BT on deer was 1990. Nosler had just discontinued the solid base and I mistakenly thought "how different can the ballistic tip be?"

Yeah, I shot a 150 lb doe with a 165 grain ballistic tip from my 06 at about 100 yards. The bullet hit a rib on the way in and shredded itself like a hand grenade. No exit on a broadside lung shot, with no blood trail.

I spent 3 hours looking for her and lost more meat than I care to admit.

i was using a 150gr bt in my 270. i've shot about 15 - 20 deer and everyone of them did NOT have a exit hole. it didn't matter if i shot them on the shoulder or behind the shoulder the bt "shredded itself like a hand grenade!!! 150lbs avg is about right for my area. i never had a deer that runs off, it will run about 30-50 yards and die.

the big reason i cast is blood trails. the boolit goes in and comes out and the blood pours out.

[GregLaROCHE]

Law enforcement have found to their dismay, that a suspect mortality wounded, unless shot in the brain or spinal cord can keep on coming at them. Just because the heart stops pumping or the lungs stop providing oxygen, doesn’t mean the muscles stop functioning right away. As is true in humans is true in animals. A shoulder shot usually guarantees less tacking, because the animal is crippled.

[Tripplebeards]

Tripplebeards you didn't do anything wrong. Maybe if a shoulder had been broken they would have traveled less, but you have an excellent load it seems, one thing, I hunt with the Lee 310, but I get it soft enough to scratch with a thumbnail. Can you do that with your devastators?

No, their too hard. I have some 50/50 alloy casted up with pewter added that don't remember the BH in both 310's and I also have devastators ready to load and with a 16:1 lead flooring and pewter mix that has a BH of 7.5. Both can be scratched before I PC them. The 16:1 devastator boolit I also have a load that shoots sub MOA at 1650 fps but i figure it will cause more damage than the load I used on this post. I would assume a softer boolit at the velocity I'm pushing it is going to cause way more damage.


To posts above on ballistic tips. I only use them on predators now. It slams coyotes to the ground like they were hit by Thors hammer! If you hit a bone in or out with my 243 loaded with 70 gr ballistic tips you can clap inside the hole. I tried a 180gr ballistic tip on a couple of whitetails out if my 06' and 300 RUM ...what a mess. Looked like a bomb went off inside them.

[white eagle]

deer flee always have
shoot em with a 50 bmg they will flee

[megasupermagnum]

deer flee always have
shoot em with a 50 bmg they will flee

Every single video online of a deer shot with a 50 BMG falls on the spot as if hit by lightning. Every single one. Not that it matters to this thread though.

Tripplebeards, my experience with hollow points is that a lead/tin alloy will always perform better. I've shot the devastator about 1350 fps from a handgun into water cast of 96/2/2 (lead/tin/antimony), and what I get every time is a bunch of tiny flakes of lead and about a 100 grain chunk left of the base of the bullet. Since you got a clean exit, this indicates your's worked better. If I could get almost as good accuracy with pure lead, that's what I'd shoot, but I don't. I still think you just got unlucky with one deer that decided to sprint for all it's worth, but softer lead will never be a bad idea if the accuracy is there.

[Tripplebeards]

My 16:1,7.5BH, PC and GC has shot under MOA. I believe the the load was using 21 gr of H110 at 1650 fps, so it shoots excellent. Actually shot a .8" group with it and a .6" group with the harder 80/20 alloy at a 100 yards when I tested both last year. I was just paranoid on shallow the penetration tests I got with the load so I didn't use it and stuck to my harder 80/20 mix that gave good penatration, expansion, and weight retention on my water testing. When I tested the 16:1, 7.5BH devastator in water filled milk jugs I sometimes had it stop in the very first jug...sometimes it would make it to the third jug. The boolit retained weight everages about a 100gr out of the original 263gr after water expansion. If it would give me a pass through with a bigger bleeder hole life would be good for tracking if needed.

My 50/50 mix and 16:1 alloys in devastators act the same ways in water tests as yours do megasupermagnum. Fragments everywhere and about a 100 grain thin mushroomed boolit set and done. I have a few test pics of them on my home page. I would assume I need to slow down the devastators to eliminate my bloodshot meat issue or change to a WFN and still be OK at the higher velocity I'm pushing since the WFN won't expand as much or at all depending on alloy choice.

[rking22]

It seems you are looking for the instant drop generated by 25-06 and270Win 3000fps bullets. If that is the case you will forever be disappointed with your 44mag cast. By your own statement the first deer was trotting by you at 20 yards. A deer can run 30mph, that is 146 yards in 10 seconds, and she was already spooked. Kicking it in and sprinting another 12 to 15seconds is no surprise. Did you actually think you missed at 20yards? The second also reacted about as expected, they were both dead, just not immobile. The dropped in their shadow result is by disruption of the brain, pressure wave thru blood bone or spinal fluid. The hi velocity expanders create a larger diameter "pressure" area to increase the chance of this result. A cast bullet is not going to get to that 3000fps range. It kills just fine, your bullets did not fail except in being overly destructive. CNS hit to drop them in their tracks or carry a flashlight and use the blood trail we get from the exit to recover your meat. The brain takes time to cease functioning, deer run and they run fast and far. Yes you will get the random DRT with cast, hit real close to the spine or ???? but in general you will have a 25 to couple hundred yard run. Place the shot well, be confident of your shot and plan to follow a blood trail. Another thing to keep in mind, archery hunters keep brand heads razer sharp because clean cuts bleed better than ragged cuts and tears, natural clotting function. Bullets naturally tear rather than slice, and a blown heart doesn't continue to pump blood. 100 yard run is about 7 seconds, I consider that to be expected, DRT is nice but not to be relied upon without breaking BOTH shoulders or CNS. Trails will be shorter with calm and unaware deer, lower adrenaline. I would drop the hollow point or slow them down to their design velocity, I lost some meat to a HP very much like yours at 1100fps. I am reducing the HP to a cup point, I like deer meat!

[Tripplebeards]

No, I didn't think I missed for one second but never shot a deer with low velocity pistol caliber chambered in a rifle and/or cast boolits before the other day. I didn't realize that a whitetail could/would act like it wasn't hit and run like it was on fire with a well placed shot. So IT DID put some doubt in my mind immediately after I pulled the trigger that something might have went wrong being 99.9% of my deer always drop where they stand after shot or at least hump/hunch up and fall with in a few yards when using high powered rifles with jacketed ammo. I was expecting the same reaction on the deer just shot with my slow, cast boolits, lesson learned. I did have a flashlight with me. The problem was I had no blood trail for the first 20/30 plus yards and I thought they went down hill in a different direction. Instead both deer that ran went across the top of ridge and over the opposite side. I knew I'd find the deer in the daylight and never expected the coyote issue to happen so I waited till morning to find them like I normally do in years past and have had no issues doing so. If it was a huge buck I probably would have looked all night in the woods but since they were meat deer and it was 17 degrees I wasn't as concerned about leaving them over night. I definitely have learned my lesson now...lesson number two...I don't leave deer in woods over night anymore. I will eventually take my range finder out in the woods and get a more accurate distance they traveled.

[megasupermagnum]

You did fine, it's always better to give deer more time than end up pushing them from their bed. That's a lesson I learned the hard way more than once. Not finding blood for 20 yards is normal.

Don't let the guys scare you into thinking low velocity just wounds deer. Our family has been hunting deer with handguns and shotguns for generations. The only high velocity option for us is a single shot "handgun" chambered in a rifle round. A well shot deer with a handgun isn't going on an all out sprint for 45 seconds. The worst I saw was a gut shot deer that crawled maybe 75 yards before it could go no farther. Maybe our deer are weaker, even though they are as big as anywhere in the world. I'm sure some guy is about to come along and say he shot a deer that ran 500 yards with lung turned to jello as if it's a bragging right to wound deer.

Next year chances are you will shoot a deer that doesn't want to sprint, and it won't make it 30 yards.

[DougGuy]

Don't let the guys scare you into thinking low velocity just wounds deer.

I have consigned my hunting to a 5 1/2" Vaquero chambered in 45 Schofield, using a 250gr LBT WFN-GC cast bhn12, with randyrat's tac1 lube. I get an honest 1200fps over 21.5gr H110, WLP primer.

I have no doubt that deer shot with this combination will not evade the freezer. Have shot a bunch with 44mag, none of them evaded, I want the biggest meplat I can get, just over supersonic when it hits hide, I have faith this will harvest venison every hunt if I do my part and put the boolit strike where it will do the most good.

[DW475]

Congrats on the venison. Sounds like a great place to call and thin out the coyote population.

[fatnhappy]

the big reason i cast is blood trails. the boolit goes in and comes out and the blood pours out.

yup.

I'm not adverse to jacketed, in so far as my expectations are met: that being an exit from any reasonable angle.

[Tripplebeards]

If the blood poured out of my two runners I would have found them that night. After 20/30 yards I found a pencil eraser to dime size blood spot every 2-6 feet till I got out to about 60/70 yards...then I had a steady trail...blood spots every couple inches. Not trying to beat a dead horse...or deer...but the blood definitely didn’t pour out and there was enough of a trail to find them. I’ve gotten way better trails from jacketed bullets from rifles, muzzle loaders, and expandable broad heads on the occasions I had to track. I’m sure it’s just the luck of the draw and the next one will either drop on the spot with the different alloy or boolit I choose to try. I believe if I used a softer alloy I would have gotten more expansion creating a larger than boolit diameter exit hole that wouldn’t have clogged up with fat for better trailing.

[c1skout]

I think your bullet did what it was supposed to. You say the deer were moving faster than walking speed, so they were probably already spooked, if they're not calm all bets are off as to how they react to a shot!

You may be using too soft of an alloy. These bullets were designed to be used with straight wheelweight lead and at pistol speeds. I use WW and just enough tin to get good fill. Mine look great after the water jug!

I've used the 45cal. devastator in my muzzleloaders with a sabot. 2 deer shot, one at 30yd one about 110, both DRT. Both of these hits shocked the spine though.

[GregLaROCHE]

I think a shoulder shot is one of the best options, if it presents itself. You’re going into the vitals, there is not that much meat there to loose and it will cripple the animal. You may even take out the other shoulder too.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have taken well over 100 deer and over 16 elk in my lifetime so far. I have shot them with longbows and two blade broadheads to handguns in calibers ranging from 357 through 300 Win mag everyone reacts differently to a gun shot or arrow. I a, not going to speculate what did or didn't happen with your shots on these deer. Now I will share some expereince.

I have taken many deer with cast bullets.
I have had great success with Devestators and with WFN hard cast.
That expereince has been with both rifles and handguns all the way up to and including the 475 Linebaugh.

The Devstator one were all 44 mag tremendous damage and the alloy was 8 parts plumbers lead to 2 parts printer Linotype.

The WFN have been the same alloy most heavy for caliber LBT designed wide Meplat boolits driven at upper end velocity for the caliber.

I like HP but based on all the deer and Elk taken with cast boolits I prefer the WFN driven hard over the HP even though I have great experience with both its just what I like better.

I remember shooting a huge northern Wisconsin baloney doe that facing me from a down hill location with the 420 grain WFN GC boolit she rolled over and kicked twice. The boolit ran the entire length of her and exited just to right of her rear exit hole. Dropped right there but I did not have enormous amounts of destruction of the meat. That sums up why I like the WFN and why I like to drive them hard. By the way the only WFN I ever recovered was on a bull elk on a quartering away shot from a 44 Magnum just under the hide on the off side after penetrating 34" of animal. the elk went 125 yards and piled up.

So really the choice is yours but I personally prefer the WFN driven at top velocity and cast heavy for caliber for the Northern Wisconsin Whitetailed Deer.

[ChristopherO]

I've only shot a few medium to big game animals with high velocity jacketed bullets, mainly the 30/06. In my home state slugs, muzzleloaders, pistols and only recently straight wall rifle calibers are allowed. Many of my harvests were made with boolits I've cast for Mzlders. The 12 gauge Lightfield slugs are huge compared to the .50 conicals and round balls of the Mzlders, and still I fully expect to see a well hit deer run anywhere from 30 to 100 + yard with the plumbing destroyed. The many dozens of deer I've killed in the past 3 decades have conditioned me to expect to track a blood trail, even with the heart is turned to mush. It is the norm, not the exception for these large, slow slugs.
Also, don't be fooled into thinking that just because a large hole has transpersed through said critter that you will simply follow the red carpet in the leaves to dead odecoileus virginianus. Much of the time you can. On other occasions fat can clog even a 12 gauge hole on a well fed midwest doe. I've had it happen. Our corn fed deer, especially the does that are not running around like the bucks, are layered with tallow. The large buck I dropped this season had not a scrap left under his hide, though. There are not givens in this sport. Enjoy the hunt and expect to track is the best advise I can share.

[500Linebaughbuck]

I remember shooting a huge northern Wisconsin baloney doe that facing me from a down hill location with the 420 grain WFN GC boolit she rolled over and kicked twice. The boolit ran the entire length of her and exited just to right of her rear exit hole. Dropped right there but I did not have enormous amounts of destruction of the meat. That sums up why I like the WFN and why I like to drive them hard. By the way the only WFN I ever recovered was on a bull elk on a quartering away shot from a 44 Magnum just under the hide on the off side after penetrating 34" of animal. the elk went 125 yards and piled up.

So really the choice is yours but I personally prefer the WFN driven at top velocity and cast heavy for caliber for the Northern Wisconsin Whitetailed Deer.

my deer(avg 150lbs) do the same thing, except i do a low - mid velocity heavy for caliber boolit (wfn, lfn and fn).

[Tripplebeards]

I think next season I’m going to switch it up and try my Ruger American 450 bushmaster with the Lee 300 grain WFN, AC COWW, PC,and GC boolits I casted up and tested last year that grouped just a hair over MOA, 1.196” at a 100 yards with 35.5gr of H110. Haven’t harvested anything with that gun yet and it was my first cast boolit load and rifle combo that got me started in the cast boolit hobby. The gun and load is a beast. I ran the boolit from 27 grains in .5 gr increments all the way up to 40 grains of H110 without any pressure signs but the best groups came from the 35.5 grain load. I would assume it’s gotta to be close to 2,000 FPS from my 16.5” barrel?

[Ramjet-SS]

My Ruger Bushmasters love the 310 grain GC RFN and WFN driven hard top velocity. Shot a smallish doe this season it was bang flop hit her behind the shoulder in the boiler room.