First deer(s) with cast boolits! Used my devastators!!!

[500Linebaughbuck]

The boolit was definitely destructive. ..... The back strap was good but some of the shoulder meat was blood shot. .....
Devastating. Huge holes and bloodshot meat.

in the past, i have seen the nosler bt do the same thing. i am not a fan of "destructive" bullets. i like to "eat up to the hole". in my mind, bloodshot meat is wasted meat.

you have learned what a cast hp will do at 1750fps. you will like it and keep hunting with it or hate it and go to another type of boolit(fn, lfn, wfn....). don't put too much faith on hyper velocity. i have a 500 linebaugh in tc encore with a 24" MGM barrel that uses a 460gr lfn gc and its only going 1200+fps. i still have hunt with it and i don't care about velocity of the boolit. what i do care about is the leakage of blood that the boolit does.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Tripplebeards,

Had I had results and devastation such as spoken of in your first post and shown in your photographs, I would have stopped using cast bullet waaaaay back.!

You don't need a softer alloy, you simply need a better bullet!

Every deer I've taken with a cast WFN has dropped where it stood with one exception that I hit just a touch far back. Likely about the diaphragm. That one went maybe 50 - 75yds.

The biggest pile is of deer taken with my WFN cast 45/70 bullet, but during the 2017 season I took two deer with my RUGER 77/44 and a WFN 275gr at 1750fps +/-.

Both 2017 deer dropped where they stood. One broad side behind the shoulders through and through at a measured 95 - 100yds, the other much closer also through and through.

The .44 WFN was cast of Clip On Wheel Weights and water quenched as they fell from the mold. The 465gr - 45/70 bullets at 1650fps +/- are cast of 50/50 Wheel Weights/lead and water quenched.

You can see that my alloy is harder then yours, with little to no expansion and yet I have NO such devastation as you show and much better dropped where they stood results.

I'd surely NOT put up with that level of devastation, meat loss and as 500Linebaughbuck says, I like to eat right up to the hole.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Rick Hodges]

I have shot many deer with modern jacketed bullets ….308W 150 gr.at 2700 fps, 45-70 300 gr. HP jkt at 1880 fps, 7-30 waters with 130 gr. sp at 2500 fps., 6mm Rem with 100 gr. jkt sp at 3000 fps. and a 44 mag, 240 gr jkt. at 1775 fps. It is not unusual for a deer to run off like the noise scared it with both lungs destroyed. They run 50-150 yds. and die.

All three of your deer died within 100 yds. I don't see a problem with your bullet performance, only your evening/dark game tracking and retrieval efforts. I hunt where there are coyotes, we make every effort to track and recover what we shoot and not leave them overnight.

[cwlongshot]

Good story,
Too bad ya lost one to them durned dogs...

I took a coyote with a 155G Devastator from my 10MM couple years back. WOW the effect! Had better than a quarter sized exit!

CW

[ole_270]

Yeah, I lost most of a 173" buck to coyotes one time, been a war on them since. You said the coyotes were in the area soon after the shot, maybe they were the reason the deer were running in the first place. Adrennaline will make them go a long ways.
My last cast boolet deer went maybe 30 yards, but was stumbling by the 3rd jump. Hit broadside through both lungs from a 250 gr 9 Bhn flat point at 25 yards from a 38-55. Velocity was 1600 fps.

[Tripplebeards]

I finished all my processing and had all my burger ground about noon so I headed out to check my trail cam. I had a big red fox nibbling on and off the carcass from 6pm last night to 4 am this morning. I had a pic of only one coyote that ran it off and never fed on the carcass. I ended up with some pretty cool videos of the fox chewing on the deer. He wasn't a fan of the the light glow of my Bushnel aggressor and kept spooking and running in circles looking into the camera till he got use to it. I'm going to have to change cast boolit design if I stick with the 77/44 next year. I have some 50/50, 16:1, WQCOWW, and ACCOWW Lee 310 boolits all casted, PC, and GC, and set to load. I also have a 450 bushmaster ruger American that I have load tested some WQ and AC COWW alloys that shoot just a hair over MOA with the Lee 300gr FN with around 35.5 gr of H110 I probably will try out. I would think the extra energy of the bushmaster load will put them down on the spot.

I should have put my camera on the gut pile from the other deer. I had about 6/8 plus set of coyote tracks in the fresh snow from yesterday where the pile was. Literally a highway of tracks. The gut pile was completely gone and cleaned up.

[Tripplebeards]

So, what's the best WFN offering out there offered in 44 cal that will put a deer down where it stands? I have tons of Lee 310s casted,PC, and GC ready to load in various BH ranges. Is there a better choice than the Lee? I know it's about the widest met plate out there in .430.

Seasons over so I won't be able to do any more deer testing till next fall.

[Hickok]

I have killed my share of deer with a .44 Mag and a .45 Colt and cast boolits. Lung hits with flat meplats get complete penetration, and run from 30 to 100 yards on average, with good blood trails.

To put a deer down "where it stands" requires destruction of the central nervous system, a shot to the spine or the brain cavity.

A good boolit though the shoulder bones and muscle will SOMETIMES put deer on the ground immediately, or they may go only a short distance and pile up. Nothing is positively certain, except shutting down the central nervous system permanently.

Like others here, I have hit deer through the lungs with 257 WM MAg, 7mm Mag, and .300 mags, and the deer run off and then die usually within 100 yards or less.

Just my experience, a deer with a heart totally destroyed will run like his tail is on fire, usually in a semicircle and then drop.

Just ain't no guarantees, except sever the spinal cord, or totally take the brain out the head.

[Larry Gibson]

I have killed my share of deer with a .44 Mag and a .45 Colt and cast boolits. Lung hits with flat meplats get complete penetration, and run from 30 to 100 yards on average, with good blood trails.

To put a deer down "where it stands" requires destruction of the central nervous system, a shot to the spine or the brain cavity.

A good boolit though the shoulder bones and muscle will SOMETIMES put deer on the ground immediately, or they may go only a short distance and pile up. Nothing is positively certain, except shutting down the central nervous system permanently.

Like others here, I have hit deer through the lungs with 257 WM MAg, 7mm Mag, and .300 mags, and the deer run off and then die usually within 100 yards or less.

Just my experience, a deer with a heart totally destroyed will run like his tail is on fire, usually in a semicircle and then drop.

Just ain't no guarantees, except sever the spinal cord, or totally take the brain out the head.

Agree. I also recommend, with the 44 Devastator, use of 16-1 alloy at 1400 - 1500 fps.

[megasupermagnum]

I've gotten into some arguments over this, but I don't think a deer running 100 yards once in a blue moon is bad. If you figure the second deer was very alert, adrenaline pumping, that's pretty good performance. I'm sure a WFN will work well, but it's going to make a smaller hole. How is a smaller hole ever going to work faster? I'd try the devastator again next year. If you get another 100+ yard runner, then put them up. My guess is you have an effective load there.

[6pt-sika]

I killed a smallish buck about six years ago with the Lyman 44 Devistater and it was from a Marlin 444 , I wasn’t pushing it hard as I was using AA XMP-5744 . Shot the buck at about thirty yards , he laid down right away . In a moment he got up and angled toward me VERY slowly and I put a second one in him PDQ end of story . My alloy was straight WW’s aircooled . I have since plunked a few with various HP’s some with the older Lyman HP style and some NOE molds with the large Devistater typeHP pin . A couple of the NOE deer needed a finisher and some didn’t . I plunked two one day with the Lyman 429244 HP that were boom flop boom flop . I have an original Lyman 429215 HP as well that eventually I’ll try . I got a MiHec 44 Terminater mold from someone used and tried it this year with the FP version and the dimple HP version and as one might expect both times they hammered the deer . That was in a Ruger #3 Carbine that started life as a 44 Mag and had been rechambered to 444 before I acquired it . I’d say I’ve killed close to sixty deer with cast in the 444 and 85% were with FP bullets .

[Fenring]

Neat!

[Larry Gibson]

Keep in mind the Devastator was designed for use at handgun velocity. That's why I recommend 1400 - 1500 fps as max velocity even from a carbine or rifle. Also the more malleable 16-1 alloy.

[Tripplebeards]

Keep in mind the Devastator was designed for use at handgun velocity. That's why I recommend 1400 - 1500 fps as max velocity even from a carbine or rifle. Also the more malleable 16-1 alloy.

That's why I did some experimenting with a lot harder, mallible alloy to try and keep the boolit together at higher velocity. I believe it was still too hard of an alloy and stayed together without expanding much even though it still made big holes and a mess. I believe a softer boolit would have made just as much blood shot meat...if not more but would have came apart and gave more of a shock value to try and put them down where there stood.

[Hickok]

I think of deer running with both lungs and/or heart destroyed in this way,.... I believe it takes from 10 seconds to 45 seconds for the lose of blood to the brain to cause "blackout" and then subsequently death due to the lack of oxygen.

A deer can run a long distance until the brain goes unconscious from lack of oxygenated blood. Just imagine how far a human can run in 30-45 seconds.

Same goes with punks/bad guys shot with heavy caliber handguns. The sometimes can stay on their feet for a while until the brain shuts down.

Unless the skeletal frame is broken down, or the central nervous system is completely shut down, any living creature can at times be still mobile until brain death happens due to lack of oxygenated blood.

I have hit deer with razor sharp broadheads, and sometimes they don't know they have been shot. They would simply stand still or slowly walk for 10 to 30 seconds, begin to stagger and stumble, and then collapse. Some of these mechanical heads cut 1.5 inch to 2 inch holes through the lungs.

[Ateam]

I think your alloy/boolit/velocity combo worked just fine. Sometimes they run sometimes they don't, does not seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. If you want them DRT then you need to go for a head/neck shot, being a rack hunter it is probably not something you would normally consider, but when meet hunting with yotes around it is the best option. Practice for it, be choosy with shots, fill that freezer.

[Tripplebeards]

If my boolit didn't expand it acted exactly the same as a WFN...so I don't see how a WFN would put a deer down any quicker especially since I had complete pass throughs. The only real variable would be trying a softer alloy which in my opinion will cause more shock value and destruction. I believe the biggest issue is the slower velocity (under 2,000fps) and not connecting with the CRS. I will try a softer alloy next season for sure and a few other boolits to compare. I'd rather not head and neck shoot them on purpose like I did with these to see if it's possible to put them down with a heart and lung shot like I do consistantly with jacketed ammo at higher velocities.

It kinda reminds me of the guys over on predator masters forum that are having issues with runners on coyotes with a 223/5.56. But when they use the exact same bullet loaded 400 fps faster chambered in a 22-250, 99.9% of the posters claim yotes slam to the ground stone cold dead. I still believe higher velocity aids in an instant shock/death.

[fatnhappy]

in the past, i have seen the nosler bt do the same thing. i am not a fan of "destructive" bullets. i like to "eat up to the hole". in my mind, bloodshot meat is wasted meat.

you have learned what a cast hp will do at 1750fps. you will like it and keep hunting with it or hate it and go to another type of boolit(fn, lfn, wfn....). don't put too much faith on hyper velocity. i have a 500 linebaugh in tc encore with a 24" MGM barrel that uses a 460gr lfn gc and its only going 1200+fps. i still have hunt with it and i don't care about velocity of the boolit. what i do care about is the leakage of blood that the boolit does.

The first and last time I used a nosler BT on deer was 1990. Nosler had just discontinued the solid base and I mistakenly thought "how different can the ballistic tip be?"

Yeah, I shot a 150 lb doe with a 165 grain ballistic tip from my 06 at about 100 yards. The bullet hit a rib on the way in and shredded itself like a hand grenade. No exit on a broadside lung shot, with no blood trail.

I spent 3 hours looking for her and lost more meat than I care to admit.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Tripplebeards,

I don't understand here ---------------------

How can you possibly be happy with the level of devastation your seeing? And you still want more expansion.?.???? Don't you eat meat from the deer you shoot?

I have successfully taken just too many deer with a large Meplat/Wide Flat Nose cast bullet, everyone with only one exception dead where they stood, to doubt the ability of a WFN .44 or .45 caliber cast bullet My much preferred point of aim is behind the shoulders.

I'd be highly disappointed to be bring game home with the level of devastation your photographs showed.

As I said earlier, you don't need a softer bullet with more expansion, you simply need a better bullet.

There is little to no expansion with my .44 or .45 caliber Wide Flat Nose cast bullets when taking deer, yet I see a VERY high level of success and ALL without anywhere close to the level of devastation shown in your images.

I have seen only one deer with anything even close to your level of devastation, that being from my first 45/70 cast bullet deer when using a 355gr WFN LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) at a muzzle velocity of 2300fps. Hitting a bit high, the bullet took out the spine and back straps leaving about a 4" hole. However, there was not the devastation such as you have shown, the bone and tissue were simply GONE, leaving the large wound channel. It only took that one experience to convince me that some changes needed to be made, after which a 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast at 1650fps has gone on to repeatedly take what has become a pile of deer and along with them, three elk.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[DougGuy]

Tripplebeards you didn't do anything wrong. Maybe if a shoulder had been broken they would have traveled less, but you have an excellent load it seems, one thing, I hunt with the Lee 310, but I get it soft enough to scratch with a thumbnail. Can you do that with your devastators?