Ranch Dog .30-30 questions

[PBSmith]

Looking at NOE's SC311-165-RF and TL311-166-RF, which I believe are the same bullet design by Ranch Dog, one having conventional lube grooves the other tumble lube grooves.

First question: is this the right bullet for a 1950 Marlin 336 with Ballard rifling? As I recall there were different versions for different guns.

Second question: those of you have cast and shot this bullet, which version do you prefer and is your preference based on ease of lubing or accuracy on paper? I can (and do) lube by tumble, press/size or cookie cutter, depending on what might give best results. I shoot both low and standard velocity loads but am no velocity freak. However, I guess you could say I am an accuracy freak.

Thanks
PBSmith

[popper]

Do yourself a favor and get chamber/bore dimensions for that rifle. I tried the original 'marlin' by Michael, some from a fellow in SC, some others, finally did my own. I PC everything. Mine is a modern microgroove. What I found is it needs to fit the throat - and the nose needs to fit (center) in the rifling. If you jam the lands, might pull the boolit on unloading or warp the action. The lever/bolt (round bolt) are the locking parts. The normal solution is to seat deeper. Getting 50-100 thous resting in the lands will improve your groups. Basically get that body/nose step in the right place and dia.
RD had several design, for marlin and win.
THis is (upper right) pretty much full load with the step in the right place and hard to shoot the 336 off bags. Yes I pulled a couple fliers.

[kungfustyle]

Don't rule out this one: http://arsenalmolds.com/bullet-molds?product_id=84 but for two days NOE has a sale..

[PBSmith]

Don't rule out this one: http://arsenalmolds.com/bullet-molds?product_id=84 but for two days NOE has a sale..

Thanks for that link. Do you know if arsenal's bullet is the first or second version of the RanchDog bullet?

Yes, the sale at NOE - that's why I'm asking these questions. Might have to try Arsenal.

[richhodg66]

Don't know about your particular rifle, but I have the original Ranchdog one with tumble lube grooves and it's been a good shooter in several rifles. He designed them for Microgroove Marlins, I think, but mine shoots well in standard rifling (I don't own a Microgroove). I killed a deer with it in a Savage 99 in .308 and have had good accuracy in my Savage 340. I was just shooting some of them in a Santa Barbara Mauser in .30-06 with ten grains of 700X and it shot several one inch groups at 100 yards. It's a good bullet which will serve you well.

[PBSmith]

Do yourself a favor and get chamber/bore dimensions for that rifle. I tried the original 'marlin' by Michael, some from a fellow in SC, some others, finally did my own. I PC everything. Mine is a modern microgroove. What I found is it needs to fit the throat - and the nose needs to fit (center) in the rifling. If you jam the lands, might pull the boolit on unloading or warp the action. The lever/bolt (round bolt) are the locking parts. The normal solution is to seat deeper. Getting 50-100 thous resting in the lands will improve your groups. Basically get that body/nose step in the right place and dia.
RD had several design, for marlin and win.
THis is (upper right) pretty much full load with the step in the right place and hard to shoot the 336 off bags. Yes I pulled a couple fliers.

Thanks, popper. First time I've seen anyone talking about "resting in the lands" with numbers.

Yes, the levers are challenging on the bags. Long ago a guy writing in Handloader magazine had an article describing how he handled this. I believe he ended up having the bottom of the receiver in the Vee bag, the forearm wood out front, unsupported. The weirdest thing was how he held the rest of the rifle, I believe one finger on the magazine tube, pulling the rifle into his shoulder. Not sure about that part,but I found improvement in my groups by resting the receiver as he did.

[PBSmith]

Don't know about your particular rifle, but I have the original Ranchdog one with tumble lube grooves and it's been a good shooter in several rifles. He designed them for Microgroove Marlins, I think, but mine shoots well in standard rifling (I don't own a Microgroove). I killed a deer with it in a Savage 99 in .308 and have had good accuracy in my Savage 340. I was just shooting some of them in a Santa Barbara Mauser in .30-06 with ten grains of 700X and it shot several one inch groups at 100 yards. It's a good bullet which will serve you well.

Sounds like a keeper. Just so happens I have a 340 myself, so your reports are very encouraging. I missed the NYears NOE sale but will be thinking along the RD lines for a future buy.

[popper]

IMHO it's the high drop stock on the leverguns that make it so hard to shoot off bags. Doesn't seem to make much difference in the field. That full load 30/30 kicks like a factory loaded 308MX. I've used the hand under the receiver before, it does work. 16gr. 2400 is more shoulder friendly.
I tried jamming the lands with the old RD boolit, works but I don't like putting a loaded rifle in the truck or carrying a brass rod to unload.
If you seat deeper with the RD style, accuracy drops, jamming works but I found (after I made my mould) that a fender washer sizing that step puts the nose centered in the bore WITHOUT jamming really works. The NOE boolit sets the step back where it loads OK but doesn't fill the throat and transition to bore the best.
The other shots on that target were PB plinking sots without the nose washer trick, but boolit is the same but lighter PB. Plus some original RD (Lee mould).

[gpidaho]

The nose of that bullet was too large to fit my Handi 30-30. I've since sold both mould and rifle. Both were great, just not together. Al's specs. are right on. Measure up your rifle and compare to make sure of fit. Gp

[popper]

Nothing against Al's moulds! I tried about all available at the time (WFN) and found they all had the same problem, even without PC. I had Accurate make mine (for PC) it had the same problem! I found a fix. It also shoots good from the AR 300BO pistol.

[richhodg66]

Sounds like a keeper. Just so happens I have a 340 myself, so your reports are very encouraging. I missed the NYears NOE sale but will be thinking along the RD lines for a future buy.

The little 340s are under rated rifles and mine has been a good shooter with cast using several different designs. I didn't use the Ranchdog bullet, but an old single cavity Ideal 31141 and that 340 to kill my first "small bore" cast bullet deer. Worked fine. Only problem I've had with the 340 is they seem to have been designed around standard factory .30-30 ammo and it's easy to load ammo that will chamber and feed but won't eject loaded rounds.

[mdi]

You can probably ask RD himself at the Lee Loader forum (a forum for those that use/like Lee products and no Lee Haters. "Home for the 'Low Life Lee Lovers'! The Forum for the Lee Precision Enthusiast!". )...
https://www.lee-loader.com/index.php

[244ack]

The original Ranch dog with the tumble lube grooves shoot best in my 1949 336A

[PBSmith]

The original Ranch dog with the tumble lube grooves shoot best in my 1949 336A

Thanks 244. Wonder if you could check this at NOE website and let me know if it corresponds to your bullet. TL311-166-RF-AI4 2 cavity 1GC 1PB (RD)

[PBSmith]

The little 340s are under rated rifles and mine has been a good shooter with cast using several different designs. I didn't use the Ranchdog bullet, but an old single cavity Ideal 31141 and that 340 to kill my first "small bore" cast bullet deer. Worked fine. Only problem I've had with the 340 is they seem to have been designed around standard factory .30-30 ammo and it's easy to load ammo that will chamber and feed but won't eject loaded rounds.

Have that problem with several of my .30-30's.

[pls1911]

It seems that when seated to the crimp groove, all my Ranch Dogs (2 lee and 2 NOE Mulitcavities ) jam the rifling instead of just lightly engraving.
Also there are feed jams with the broad meplat combined with the length.
When seated just over the shoulder/first driving band at the bottom of the ogive, chambering and accuracy is satisfactory in multiple rifles and TC Contenders.

I've been away from the loading bench too long as well as the casting bench. I need to inventory stock on hand and restore levels.
My pprimary choices for spring pigs remain the 30/30 with cast bullets at 1700 fps. What's not to like?

[truckjohn]

When you are talking "0.1" needs to fit the rifling".... Doesn't that sort of take us back around to the classic Ideal 31141 / Lyman 311041 bullet design... That's as close of a universal go-to 30-30 boolit as I can think of..... It's where every body always ends up after trying lots of other stuff...

It would not surprise me that it works so well because Marlin 30-30's basically have no leade and no throat, so the bore riding nose basically does the piloting we would normally get from the LFN's wide front band and nose profile matching the rifling leade... The typical "normal" 30-cal like a 308 or 30-06 typically includes some bore-diameter throat as well as a more gradual leade. A full bore diameter LFN/WFN nose profile takes fine advantage of that sort of chamber arrangement much better than the 311041 - but that doesn't exist in the typical 30-30 Marlin chamber....

Speaking of which - did we finally sort out what we considered to be the "optimum optimum" 311041 design? There have been a few group buys with various slight design changes....