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Thread: What is your favorite sub sonic powders

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    What is your favorite sub sonic powders

    I cast and play with sub sonic loads from the .22 K Hornet to the 35 Remington. This winter its a 22K, a really pretty .222 Sako Vixen and a .308 Rem.

    So to narrow it down I'll ask it like this:

    What's your "go to" powders for sub sonic loads in small calibers and what is your "go to" powders for subsonic larger calibers?

    As a side note I have a comment regarding primers and sub sonic loads. I've shot enough in a controlled environment that I can state (at least for me) that powder to powder there's no guaranteed result that small pistol versus small rifle primers will act as we would expect.

    I know this goes against everything I've read on line but here's an example. Bullseye and the 225538 44 grain Lyman consistently has a lower velocity with small rifle than small pistol primers. Possibly supporting the theory that the small rifle primer is causing insufficient burn and the bullet is leaving the case before the power is spent. On the other hand I can shoot both small rifle and small pistol with Unique (again sub sonic) and you could flip a coin as to which would be a few fps faster or slower using the same charge. And at least for me, when using Unique neither SR or SP had an advantage over one another regarding accuracy.

    I know Bullseye is faster than Unique but I can't begin to understand what the heck is happening there. Thanks for listening. Bill.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Some SR primers actually have a lesser brisance than some SP primers. Which are you using?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    I can only speak for larger 30-35 cals but I only have ever needed to use Bullseye for those type of loads . For stuff like 308/30-06 32 spl and 35 Rem it's usually a normal weight bullet and 4.5-6 grs of Bullseye with a regular rifle primer .
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Head to head I have a lot of data on Fed 100 SP and Fed 205M rifle shooting Bullseye in the 2.0 to 3.0 grain range. What I found was that the Fed 205 consistently had less velocity then the small pistol. So for myself, in my rifle with my powder and my primers I would use only small pistol (CCI or Federal) with Bullseye in the 2.0 to 3.0 range with 44 grain bullets.

    In another set of data that I have has a lot of CCI small piston head to head with the Fed 100 small pistol and I found that they are nearly the same in the same 2.0 to 3.0 grain range. Again, most of my data was with the 44 grain Lyman 225438 mold.

    Note; those loads were in a 22 K Hornet and you have to be careful about sub sonic loads. If you play with sub sonic long enough you may well wind up sticking a bullet in the barrel and you could have a dangerous situation on your hands. These loads worked in my equipment and may not work in yours. what I mean is that if you put 2 grains of Bullseye behind a 308 bullet it may not come out of the barrel. Please be careful.

    I am also comfortable that the small rifle Federal 100 and the small pistol CCI have nearly the same velocity and SD when using Unique in the 2.0 to 3.0 range and again with the 44 grain Lyman. I would not mix them up shooting groups but everything looks transferable between the two over time.

    I believe the 5 grains of Bullseye could be one of the most popular loads with the 30 cals so I'll start in that vicinity.

    Does anyone have a favorite powder for sub sonic in the hornet to 223 range using 40 to 60 grain bullets??? Thanks again, Bill.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I have noticed the same thing with subsonic loads (308, 300WM) and different primers, magnum rifle primers give less velocity than standard rifle primers. I use Vihtavuori pistol powders like N320 and 3N37 for subs.

    Also 458 Socom gives me slower velocities with magnum rifle primer vs standard pistol. Those are full power loads with VV N130.

    I have usually had the best subsonic accuracy with Federal 215 magnum rifle primers in 308 and 300WM, the latter really surprised me last winter with 170 grain Sierra 30-30 bullets. Something like under one inch @ 75 m.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks Petander. That's a good reply. When the .308 come up this winter the Federal 215 magnum rifle will be on the top of the list backed by the N320.

    Thanks for that. Funny things surface when you look at the data. Accuracy and cast bullets is a whole different ball game than spray and pray. Life is short. If I have only a few thousands rounds left in my life I would like them to go through the same hole.

    I still want to shoot a couple groups using CCI Magnum CCI primers on the small cal .22's just for the heck of it. I've decided to look at Bullseye, Red Dot, W231 and Unique with the small .22 44 grain in a K Hornet from 1.2 to about 2.6 grain. Just to scan the velocities and first impression group sizes. Then I'll take on the 55 grain Lyman 2660415 using a similar loading. Sad to say I am running out of winter time. I need to get past the K Hornet to get to the .222 Sako and the .308. Take care, Bill.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    Look at Trail Boss powder. It is super fluffy and takes up a lot of space, so it is easier to check for double charges and the like. It has the added bonus of being impossible to over-pressure, even with a doubled charge. IMR has information on reduced loads with it on their website: https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/upl...-loads-r_p.pdf

    Remember subs are backwards too, you start at higher charge weights and work down to get the velocity you are after.

    11.2 grains of Trail Boss with a 180 jacketed RN gives me about 1070 fps at 980 ft above sea level with a CCI #200, trimmed to minimum, and COAL of 2.80".
    Last edited by 244; 12-31-2018 at 02:30 AM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Here I am dialing in 75 m zero. N320,Sierra 170, CCI 215, 300WM.

    You really want to write down the clicks / dots /MOA/ whatever you use for subsonic load trajectory adjustments. I THINK I needed 63 clicks from normal load 75 m zero...

    Attachment 233022

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    For subsonic in my rifles (223 all the way to my M1 Garand) I use pistol powders. 700x, HP=38, Win 231, CFE Pistol and Titegroup. Best results so far with HP-38 and Titegroup, but I've just started trying CFE Pistol and it seems good too.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Cast_outlaw's Avatar
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    Only subsonic I’ve done is 7.62x39 with tightgroup worked out quite well at 930fps

  11. #11
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    A friend dropped a can of Hodgen CFE BLK on my desk the other day. It specifically mentions sub sonic loads in the 300 blackout. Have not had a chance to try it in my 17HH but will get to it this winter. Might give that a go.
    Steve,

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Results will vary. But I like IMR red, red dot and titegroup, but certain caliber boolit combinations unique and longshot work the best.
    I'm loading for 303, 308, 30'06, 7.62x54 and 6.5x55
    Accuracy is good to great, 6.5x55 is a basket of rusty doorknobs I revisit from time to time.
    Be well
    When you read the fine print you get an education
    when you ignore the fine print you get experience

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    VV N32C "Tin Star". Fast burn rate like N320 but bulky to fill a large case.
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