Carbide expander ball

[Bazoo]

I scored a set of CH 30-30 dies on ebay pretty cheap. Always a gamble on ebay, It appears I got a standard sizing die but with a carbide expander ball. And a seat crimp die that dont crimp. I contacted Dave, who indicated it was 50+ years old.

I cleaned the dies and sized a case with it. Anyone have any opinion on carbide expander balls?

~Bazoo

[TNsailorman]

They are intended to be used without having to lube the inside of the case neck. sjome like them and others like me don't really see a need but that is an individual call. james

[country gent]

I use them when expanding necks up, other wise a standard expander with good polish works fine for me.
As to the seating crimp die you might try a different shell holder or a shim under the case to slightly raise the case up and see if it crimps. If so then face a small amount off of the bottom of the die so it can be set lower.

[Walks]

Maybe a stupid question, but with the wildly varying case lengths we are seeing today, did you see if your cases meet minimum case length requirements for .30-30 ?

[Peregrine]

Now here's an even stupider question. I've read about carbide balls for a while now, but how would I go about getting one? I have Redding a d Lyman dies I wouldn't mind swapping one into, but they're not something I see available to order anywhere.

[TNsailorman]

You can buy replacement carbide expander balls for most die makers. I think Midway lists them, didn't check before I answered this though, just went on memory. CH4D will coat your expander but the price is not cheap. james

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Well, my length is all over my trim to of 2.028 after firing and sizing.

The issue with the crimp die is as follows. If I run an empty case into the die, I can get a small amount of noticeable or measurable crimping, like a real light taper crimp. I have to run the die almost all the way down though for that, and it dont look like a real crimp, or a taper crimp, but rather like the inside of the die that removes the belling is very slightly tapered from polishing. So, when I try to then seat a bullet with the die in that position, it always pushes the bullet (31141) into the case deeper. The bullet hits on the front driving band where the bullet nose goes through the transition from the crimp area into the threaded area of the seating stem. The seating stem is for a conical bullet. I surmise that the set is for 30-30 variant that came out years ago. I cant think of the name of it for sure, but I think it was 30 american. I believe it had small primer pockets and spitzer bullets.

As per the carbide sizer.. I only sized one case with it to check the dimensions against my existing dies to make sure it wasnt an improved die or something. So I cant say from any experience. I dont normally lube my case necks anyways... I sometimes use graphite... but, normally Just brush them.

[lightman]

I've got a few carbide expander balls for the some of the calibers that I load the most. They work smoother than even my polished steel ones. I usually lube with a spray so case necks may or may not get lube in them. Mine are from Redding and were expensive, the reason that I only have 3. Carbide is brittle so develop a technique thats slow and deliberate. They can be broken.

[Rockzilla]

Got the expander balls from years ago for .223, .308, 30-06 (yeah I know same caliber) a bunch of extra ones, when I used them the amount of force (effort)to raise the ram, or pull the expander back out was a lot easier, smoother compared to the others, have had no problems with any of them. their tiN coated dies are great, expensive but worth it. even have an ole Cannelure Tool from them, several taper crimp dies. Dave
is great and knows the business rather well. stand up guy...

-Rock

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies.

Lightman, I do know that carbide can be broken rather easily, and thats my only reservation other than not knowing a whole lot about them in general.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I run a neck cleaning brush in the case mouth then dip in fine graphite and tap off any excess, been doing it this way for 30 years and more.Robert

[Bazoo]

I figured out the crimp die is a roll crimp. If I run a piece of brass into it almost as deep as it will go it gives a normal roll crimp. Guess I was having a dense moment or something. It will not crimp the 31141 bullets however. The shoulder of the first driving band hits on the internal shoulder of the die where it transitions from the crimp to the bullet guiding area. I slugged that portion of the die and it measured .309, same as my bullets. I'd guess itd work perfectly with jacketed bullets, as they don't have a shoulder to snag and are .308 diameter with the nose being radiused all the way to the cannelure.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this.

[Bazoo]

I also did some side by side comparison with the carbide expander ball vs my Lyman that is polished. Both halves of a small batch were lubed with imperial and no neck lube. I sized half with the Lyman die and then switched to the CH with carbide button, both with my lee hand press. Not much difference actually. I had tumbled them but not brushed the necks. At this point I don't see any benefit to the carbide expander button.

[David2011]

Polishing an expander ball is in my opinion one of the easiest, cheapest things we can possibly do to make rifle case sizing more pleasant. They can be spun in a drill or a lathe. No metal should be removed with a quick polish. I use 400/500/800 and 1000 or 1200 depending on what I have on hand; just a second or two with each. Miking before and after with a 0.0001 micrometer showed no difference. You just need to polish them a little. Friction goes way down as does any squeaking you might have been hearing. I've polished the expander ball in every die I use that has one as well as some for friends that were all amazed at the difference.

[bobthenailer]

I use the carbide neck expander ball when I reload 22 hornet, 223 or 30/20 on my dillon