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Thread: Another Wet Tumbling Question

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Another Wet Tumbling Question

    Every once in a while my brass comes out dull. Its clean but lacks the jewelry like shine that we associate with wet tumbling. I chalked it up to a couple of things. Once I added an extra tiny bit of LemiShine because the brass had more than the normal amount of stain. Another time I had to leave them in the tumbler for a little while. Because of that I tumbled them for another half hour. I just now noticed that both batches had a few nickel cases that snuck into the mix. My question is, will nickel cases cause this?

    I'm not really a rookie at this. I have a date written on my tumbler motor of May 2013 when I bought it so I've been wet tumbling at least that long. I've tumbled many thousands of cases since then, with mostly excellent results. I'm just trying to learn whats going on when I have the rare occasion that the results are not what is expected. Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I just recently started wet tumbling with SS pins, in just the last year or so. I had the same problem that you are having. I did a lot of research online and some experimentation. I don't think the nickle plated brass is causing your issue. What I finally settled on has given me flawless results, consistently, and with no more than 1.5 hours of tumbling. My cases come out shinier than brand new brass. Primer pockets are clean and the insides of the cases shine just like the outside. What I do is mix all of my water, citric acid, and Dawn in one gallon jugs, to exact proportions, and add this mixture to the drum as needed per batch. It's about getting consistent proportions of the cleaner elements vs water. It should be noted that these proportions can vary depending on your water supply. It has to do with the PH of your water and cleaner mixture. I have also found that the volume of SS pins vs brass has some bearing. The more pins I use relative to the number of cases, the better the results. Don't skimp on the pins. Also, some tumblers have a smooth, round drum and don't provide sufficient agitation, which requires longer run times. But in regards to your particular problem, I think I would focus on getting a consistent ratio of you cleaning mixture to solve your issue.

  3. #3
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    I can "sort of" answer, as I had been plagued with same challenge. Being kind of (?) OCD, I generally reckon everything has room for improvement. I started tumbling with distilled water plus Dawn plus Lem-I-Shine, and was dazzled on sunny days how shiny my brass got. I read that adding Armor-All Wash 'n Wax makes the process better, as it puts a microscopic layer of wax on polished brass, arresting the rate of oxidation/dulling. BUT -- for ME -- I noted the brass seemed less shiny. A bit later -- also on this site -- someone who knows tons more chemistry than I do wrote that the Dawn and Armor-All chemically fight with each other, as the Dawn is a grease/wax removing product. ( PLEASE NOTE: I do not wish my answer, which others may view as pure stupidity, nonsense, or incorrect as fodder to hijack/change the direction of this thread.) BUT, again just ME, when I totally eliminated the Dawn -- just using distilled water, Lem-N-Shine, and Armor All Wash n Wax, *MY* brass again became quite shiny. Another person had posted that he found using Ivory brand (as opposed to Dawn) seemed to clean better than without a "soap", without any deleterious dulling effects. Again, kindly note I am NOT a chemist, or, frankly really know what I'm doing... BUT, for ME, this helped. I wish I had the knowledge base to answer your question re the nickel coated cases, but, my guess -- nothing more -- is they have no bearing. I've ss pin tumbled many batches of both .38 S&W Special and .45ACP brass with mixed plain brass and nickel plated in the mix -- with no negative results.
    Hope this helps!
    geo

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    + 1 on the distilled H20, I use rain water cause I have a lot of it being collected to water Orchid plants, it it slightly on the acid side and seems to work better than well or city water. I also use Dawn and Lemmon shine, with no darkening of brass. Some times brass is so stained seems nothing will help.

  5. #5
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    Dull can come from letting the brass soak in the solution after tumbling too long if it contains citric acid/lemishine.

    a little citric acid / lemi-shine goes a long way
    Last edited by Conditor22; 01-05-2019 at 05:06 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    My best results are using citric acid. Just a little.
    Using Dawn. Just a little.....dale

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Use cold or room temperature water only.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    I can "sort of" answer, as I had been plagued with same challenge. Being kind of (?) OCD, I generally reckon everything has room for improvement. I started tumbling with distilled water plus Dawn plus Lem-I-Shine, and was dazzled on sunny days how shiny my brass got. I read that adding Armor-All Wash 'n Wax makes the process better, as it puts a microscopic layer of wax on polished brass, arresting the rate of oxidation/dulling. BUT -- for ME -- I noted the brass seemed less shiny. A bit later -- also on this site -- someone who knows tons more chemistry than I do wrote that the Dawn and Armor-All chemically fight with each other, as the Dawn is a grease/wax removing product. ( PLEASE NOTE: I do not wish my answer, which others may view as pure stupidity, nonsense, or incorrect as fodder to hijack/change the direction of this thread.) BUT, again just ME, when I totally eliminated the Dawn -- just using distilled water, Lem-N-Shine, and Armor All Wash n Wax, *MY* brass again became quite shiny. Another person had posted that he found using Ivory brand (as opposed to Dawn) seemed to clean better than without a "soap", without any deleterious dulling effects. Again, kindly note I am NOT a chemist, or, frankly really know what I'm doing... BUT, for ME, this helped. I wish I had the knowledge base to answer your question re the nickel coated cases, but, my guess -- nothing more -- is they have no bearing. I've ss pin tumbled many batches of both .38 S&W Special and .45ACP brass with mixed plain brass and nickel plated in the mix -- with no negative results.
    Hope this helps!
    geo
    I hope all your posts don’t have this much disclaimer lol. Btw you’ll hear from my lawyer if my brass comes up dull.
    I’m watching this because I’ve also had some dull brass, but to me it’s important to note that if wash n wax is not used, that super clean brass will be brown as boots in not time from tarnish so to me that ingredient or something similar is mandatory. I’d rather have dull stable brass than shiny clean brass that self dulls in the coming months.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I should have provided more info. I measure both the LemiShine and the soap. A 9mm case of LemiShine and a cap full of the ArmorAll Wash and Wax, using the cap on the container. I started with 6# of pins. I don't weigh the brass or the water. I add brass until it looks like enough and cover it with water by about an inch. I use a Thumlers 15# drum on a Big Dawg tumbler frame. Even though the tumbler will handle about anything I could put on it I try to keep it under 15#. I usually use hot water and I run it for 2 hours as the timer has 2 hour increments. This makes all but the dirtiest brass look like new.

    Thinking back, I know yesterdays batch sat in the tumbler for a few hours after it shut off. I think the last failure may have too! I may need to plan better!

    Thanks for the replys everyone.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    OH BOY another tumbling thread
    Just a FYI thread drift...
    Add a few drops of fabric softener, it will kill the soap suds...

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightman View Post
    I don't weigh the brass or the water. I add brass until it looks like enough and cover it with water by about an inch.
    Here's the point I was trying to make with my earlier post. If you don't measure the water, but you do measure the lemishine and soap, then your cleaner concentration will change from batch to batch. Your result could also then change.

    It sort of like always adding 1 teaspoon of salt to your pot of soup, whether you make one gallon of soup or two gallons of soup.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Ok, I got you. While I don't measure the water or brass I expect that they are fairly uniform by the way that I do them. I'll try counting out some cases and measuring the water next time, just to see. Getting dull cases only has happened a few times but its frustrating when it does. Thank You Everyone for the replys.

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by djgoings View Post
    Use cold or room temperature water only.
    ^^ This. I experimented with each, keeping the lemishine and dawn constant. The hot water batches exhibited the effect of which the OP spoke. The cold water looked as I've come to expect.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    my 2¢:

    ¼ teaspoon Lemi-Shine and yes, that is just a tiny bit

    1 oz Armor-All

    1 gallon tap water

    get great shiny brass which I dry in the Sun (well, maybe not today)
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenstone View Post
    OH BOY another tumbling thread
    Just a FYI thread drift...
    Add a few drops of fabric softener, it will kill the soap suds...
    I'm on a quest, searching for a cleaner to add to wet tumbling, WITHOUT PINS, that will clean primer pockets
    There's this, Brass Juice: https://www.thereloadingstation.com/...uice-case-wash
    Kind of pricey though
    Anyone have a product that works, WITHOUT PINS
    sorry for the drift,
    Last edited by Kenstone; 01-05-2019 at 05:06 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Always fill the water to the top. It doesn't matter if the water is cold, after you add hot water to 1-3 or5lbs of brass and tumble for an hour or 3 the water will be cold anyway. Very dirty brass cleans better with warm water. Lemi-Shine is to soften hard water as your soap will work better your water should be neutral or just slightly acidic. The soap suspends the dirt into solution. I find if the brass is very dirty I change the water half way though. The water can only hold so much dirt in solution. If the brass sits in the solution (especially if it's very dirty) without tumbling too long it will get greasy or dull. Less is more cut back on the amount of soap and maybe Lemi-shine as well. I have a F.A.R.T. It's a big tumbler. I use 2-3 drops dawn and 1/8-1/4tsp Lemi-shine original (Citric acid). I did use car wash soap and used about a cap full it worked just fine. Hot water rinse may cause spots but I tumble dry with strips of car chamois, I never get spots. I tumble a lot more than brass as well. I use jewelers tumbling media in a small tumbler to clean jewelry. I tumble tools, copper fittings, I've tumbled every socket I own to clean them.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    I just started using a home made tumbler that holds about 2 gallons of water, 15 pounds of brass, and 10 pounds of media. I am thinking about upping it to 15 pounds of media. I'm not too precise on amounts, but a use a large squirt of dawn and 2 .38 casings of lemishine.

  18. #18
    Boolit Man
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    Brass always comes out like new, sometimes a little shinier than others, but always clean as a whistle.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    It looks like I might get to start back tumbling tomorrow and I will try a few of you'alls suggestions. I've only had maybe 3 disappointing sessions since 2013 doing things my way so I guess thats not to bad. I think those were from not being quick enough unloading the brass.

    1. I usually use hot water and I'll try cold water.
    2. I usually only cover the brass with about an inch of water. I'll try it with more.
    3. I usually estimate the brass counts and the amount of water and I'll measure both.

    Thanks Guys

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Wondering ... Will brass washed (metal) cases react to the acid and cause the brown reaction? I have found some 9mm cases in my range pick-ups that were magnetic. Have got that reaction in the past, but don't always run a magnet through everything to check. Have read that metal will cause negative reaction.

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BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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