Pistol caliber carbines Plusses and Minuses--your opinion?

[JBinMN]

I am thinking I will probably end up with both a lever rifle in 357mag and a semi-auto rifle in either 9mm or 45ACP(or maybe both). As I said, slightly different intended usage there although there is overlap.
Any reason manufacturers cannot make a lever rifle in 9mm or 45ACP?

I don't know.

[spfd1903]

I have both a 9mm and 45 Auto Hi point carbine. Not overly expensive and both very reliable. As you stated Tazman, the increase in velocity for both calibers is around 200 fps. I have loaded specific loads from the Lyman 47 th? Edition for "9 mm carbine" which are faster due to more powder. Both carbines shoot accurately at farther distances than I can shoot the corresponding pistol. The magazines are not compatible with the Hi point pistols. There is a two magazine holder that attaches to the stock of their carbines which allows quick reloads. For pure fun, I attached a cheap Sportsman Guide green laser to the front rail under the muzzle. Once dialed in, I can fire from the hip and hit bullseye in daylight at 40 yards. Again, just for fun. Waiting to get the new 10 mm carbine, to share ammo with my Glock 20.

[Lonegun1894]

Any reason manufacturers cannot make a lever rifle in 9mm or 45ACP?

Only one I know of off the top of my head that does this is Ranger Precision, but I’ve never handled one. The reason most don’t, at least my belief, is due to the 9mm and .45 ACP being rimless cases. I’m no designer or machinist or anything, but I can’t help thinking that the vast majority of our lever action designs, or at least the ones with tubular magazines, are chambered in things that have a rim for a reason other than tradition. Even Marlin, when they tried to match.308 Winchester performance with their .308 Marlin Express a few years ago, made a proprietary rimmed round instead of just using the .308 Winchester case that is so common.

[tazman]

Only one I know of off the top of my head that does this is Ranger Precision, but I’ve never handled one. The reason most don’t, at least my belief, is due to the 9mm and .45 ACP being rimless cases. I’m no designer or machinist or anything, but I can’t help thinking that the vast majority of our lever action designs, or at least the ones with tubular magazines, are chambered in things that have a rim for a reason other than tradition. Even Marlin, when they tried to match.308 Winchester performance with their .308 Marlin Express a few years ago, made a proprietary rimmed round instead of just using the .308 Winchester case that is so common.

Yes 9mm and 45ACP are rimless cases. So is 35 Remington. That is my point. Lever rifles can be chambered in rimless calibers and have been. TC, flat point, and hollow point nose profiles would be quite safe. Probably the round nose designs would be also since there would be negligible recoil.

[Baltimoreed]

There are cas gunsmiths building .45acp 1873 winchester/uberti lever action rifles for Wild Bunch competition. As the only pistol used in WB is the 1911 it simplifies your ammo requirements but at a price. It might shorten the lever stroke on a ‘73 a bit but I don’t think it gives you any other edge.

[tazman]

I have no intention of limiting myself to a single load for both handgun and rifle. I expect to develop several loads with different boolit weights that both will consume reliably. No reason this can't happen.
Light plinking loads should work well in both rifle and handgun. Heavy loads will be limited to the capabilities of the weaker of the two firearms.
I never know which box of cartridges will be grabbed in a hurried situation, so I need to have the ammo be safe in both.
After some thought, a 125 grain boolit, loaded to 38 special +P velocities, should work pretty well as a varmint and defense load in a lever rifle while heavier weight loads would be great for hunting larger game animals.
45ACP loads would work for both instances as well.
I would consider 9mm to be marginal for deer sized game and larger. That said, 9mm is hard to beat for just plain fun shooting.
Choices, choices, choices.
Maybe I need to get one of everything.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Silvercreek Farmer -

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr - $0.027 cents each for cheaper ammo, more for others.

http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rimfire/22lr/ - $0.04/rd

Ammo search engines are sorta handy

tazman - Just ONE? Two is funner LOL

[tazman]

tazman - Just ONE? Two is funner LOL

I agree in principle. The issue is, I don't multitask well. I have trouble with accuracy shooting 2 at once.
I know, it's a personal problem. LOL

[Mr_Sheesh]

For SD guns my rule has been to get at least 1 backup weapon, so WHEN the primary has an issue like eventually the sear getting tired from 10 billion rounds through it, I can shoot with the backup weapon while the primary is repaired.

OK, I'll admit it, several backups LOL

[georgerkahn]

JJust a note re the Ruger Black-hawk in U S .30 Carbine caliber: To wit, I wanted but could never afford one for many years, until I chanced upon one at a gun-shop selling-due-to-retirement sale, and it followed me home. The DISAPPOINTMENT to me is, in the instruction pamphlet accompanying it, Ruger cleary advises, and this is a "paste" of said sheet:
Notes on Revolvers Chambered for 9mm or 30 Carbine: Because 9mm
cartridges are manufactured worldwide for use in pistols, revolvers, and
submachine guns, it is possible to encounter cartridges which, when fired,
develop pierced primers. If this occurs, discontinue the use of the particular
brand or type of ammunition. The possibility of a pierced primer is another
compelling reason why a shooter should always wear protective glasses to shield
his eyes. Use only metal jacketed bullets in 9mm and 30 Carbine revolvers. When
a lead bullet is fired, its base expands and a ring of lead is shaved off and
deposited in the shoulder area of the chamber. A build-up of lead rings can
prevent proper chambering of cartridges because 9mm and 30 Carbine cartridge
mouths seat on the chamber shoulders.
When firing a regular 30 Carbine cartridge with a metal jacketed bullet, a ring of
brass is sometimes clipped from the mouth of the cartridge case. This ring can
lodge in the chamber shoulder and prevent full chambering of a subsequent
cartridge. For the reasons noted above, revolver chambers should be cleaned
regularly and chamber cleaning should be the first corrective action when
cartridges do not chamber properly.

As I endeavor to shoot as much cast bullets in all my few firearms, this is, to me, a costly sting. Hence, I have a few boxes of jacketed bullets (110gn Sierra RN) -- but, while one can, say, carry a rifle/revolver pair in .38WCF (.38-40), .44WCF (.44-40), .45LC, and others -- vis the U S .30 Carbine there IS this advice (which I heed).
geo

[Poygan]

georgerkahn: I use both jacketed and cast in my Ruger 30 carbine and have not run into the referenced problem. Initially I had problems with the carbine brass and used .32-20 brass instead. I now use carbine brass after I realized I needed to trim the carbine brass. Perhaps I have not run into this problem since I don't shoot many rounds per session and haven't really shot it a lot.

[Texas by God]

The semi pointed, hard FMJ bullets in 9mm and .45 auto cartridges may set off a mag tube detonation in a traditional lever gun. .40/10mm have always had FPJ as a rule. I'm just surmising. They would be fun in a lever but no more so than a .38 Special or .45 LC already is.

[JSnover]

The semi pointed, hard FMJ bullets in 9mm and .45 auto cartridges may set off a mag tube detonation in a traditional lever gun. .40/10mm have always had FPJ as a rule. I'm just surmising. They would be fun in a lever but no more so than a .38 Special or .45 LC already is.

I understand why people wish for rimless PCC but you're right, 38/357, 44 and 45LC are so well suited for these guns there's no real need to feed them autopistol cartridges. Nothing at all to gain from a ballistic standpoint.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I came back and read this thread again, since it has added so many new posts, pages actually. Several of the fraternity have tip toed around the benefit of longer barrels, but I don't see where anyone has said that a big advantage to having a carbine is the increased sighting radius, which for most results in an ability to hit accurately at longer ranges that with just a handgun. Obviously, Elmer didn't need one....

For most guys, though, I think that even using a compromise load that works well in both revolver/pistol and carbine, the carbine will let them extend their range a little. Especially for guys with older eyes that like peep sights.

I owned one of the early JM Marlin .357 Mag. carbines. Sold it off because I like the feeling of shooting something, even if it's just a little push, and it seemed more like shooting a BB gun. Big mistake, I now realize. Should another come my way I'll likely grab it.

Great thread, with lots of viewpoints and information.

[jcren]

While I am not typically a speed freak, increasing velocity of a given bullet does increase its potential to do damage. 200 fps may noot seem like a major gain, but going from 800fps in a 45acp to 1000 in a carbine is a substantial 25% increase. I would have to push my 165 grain 30-06 from 2700 up to 3500 fps to get that much of an increase!

[anothernewb]

I use it to teach the grandkids to shoot. the smallish carbines are easier for them to handle.

[Herb in Pa]

High fun factor with a Marlin Camp 9 especially when suppressed, 30 Mauser Broom is fun also...…….

[tazman]

I would love to get a 9mm or 45ACP caliber PCC that uses Springfield XDM magazines. I have a couple of these pistols and several mags for them. It would make a decision easier for me as far as these two calibers are concerned.
I have read where XD magazines were modified slightly and could be used in certain SUB2000 series rifles.
I have looked at the Mech Tech Systems upper for the XD and like the idea but hate to give up a handgun to be used on the carbine.

[Jeff Michel]

(QUOTE) I like the look of the Henry Big Boy Steel in .327 Fed Mag. But I bet it won't cycle my little .32sw longs. So it turns it into a 900$ single shot.

FWIW, My .327 Henry cycles .32 S&W longs just fine. Henry will tell you point blank your not supposed too, but do not explain as to why.

[winelover]

I would love to get a 9mm or 45ACP caliber PCC that uses Springfield XDM magazines. I have looked at the Mech Tech Systems upper for the XD and like the idea but hate to give up a handgun to be used on the carbine.

Bingo......on the sacrificial frame.

I felt the same way, when I was looking for a 9mm carbine. I wanted one that used Browning HP mags. As popular as the gun is, none existed. I'd even settle for one that took Sig magazines. I don't own a Glock and my XD is a sub-compact. Went with the CZ Scorpion. It came with two twenty rounders. Thirty rounders are available for @ $20 each.............very affordable for factory made magazines. The new Ruger carbine wasn't available, when I was looking to purchase.



Winelover