Pistol caliber carbines Plusses and Minuses--your opinion?

[tazman]

My deal is, I don't want to get a rifle/carbine in a caliber I don't already own in a handgun. I don't want to buy a handgun to go with the new rifle and have to retool and load for another caliber. This limits me somewhat, but still gives me choices.
Currently 9mm, 38/357, 40S&W, and 45ACP.
The only cartridge that gets me a large gain in usability is the 357mag. It also gives me versatility because I can use the 38 special in the same gun.

[rockshooter]

.327 data, 16" Henry lever action vs 4 5/8 Ruger Single Seven- Labradar data
120gr 311008, 9.3 gr 2400 rifle=1567 fps, SD 13 pistol=1135fps, SD 33
4.5 gr Unique rifle=1229 fps, SD 25 pistol=1022 fps SD 25
.32 H&R
120gr 311008, 3.6gr 231 rifle= 1102 fps SD 7 pistol= 904 fps SD 20
With the exception of Unique, standard deviation is better with rifle
Slower powder, as expected, gives greater velocity increase in rifle

Loren

[GhostHawk]

I can see the attraction to a .357 mag lever. Even if you do mostly use .38 specials for plinking with it.

I have 2 .44mag single shots which I enjoy immensely, along with a .444marlin single shot that I mostly shoot pretty mild .44mag loads in .444 brass.

But a .357 Henry would be tempting.

As would a .32H&R mag or .327mag lever.
Either would also shoot .32sw long ammo. And I do have a Ruger NM Single Six in .32h&R Mag. So good combo's available. Might have to think about that.

[clodhopper]

I'm good with a S&W M19 4" round butt, and a Ruger 77-357.

The pistol is easy to carry and unholster.

The rifle is easy to carry, and hit with, a 2-7 scope mounted low, quiet, near zero recoil, works good with bipod, just a joy to shoot.

Call me crazy, but having to squeeze the lever against the rifle to get a lever action to fire just seems so wrong.

[dverna]

I'm good with a S&W M19 4" round butt, and a Ruger 77-357.

The pistol is easy to carry and unholster.

The rifle is easy to carry, and hit with, a 2-7 scope mounted low, quiet, near zero recoil, works good with bipod, just a joy to shoot.

Call me crazy, but having to squeeze the lever against the rifle to get a lever action to fire just seems so wrong.

Someday you will see the light Grasshopper. Lol

No rifle more fun than a .38/.357 lever action that has been properly tuned.

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 233206I love my.45acp PCCs. Ive built 3 AR .45s that have a dedicated greasegun magazine lower. Great range toys, used the 12 inch bbl sbr in a couple of matches. Lots of fun. My .45 acp loads work in my 1911s, 625 Smiths and PCCs with no issues. Majority is loaded with 200 gr rnfp lead bullets.

[wrench man]

I just bought 5 1600 round cases of the Federal bulk 22 LR. After the rebate it came out to 2.7 cents per round.

It is manufactured by CCI. It's accuracy is just as good as the other 22 LR rounds that I normally buy.

I got it at BiMart on black Friday, on sale with the rebate it comes out to 1.8 cents each, the guys over at RFC claim it's CCI MINI MAG with a F head stamp.

.327 data, 16" Henry lever action vs 4 5/8 Ruger Single Seven- Labradar data
120gr 311008, 9.3 gr 2400 rifle=1567 fps, SD 13 pistol=1135fps, SD 33
4.5 gr Unique rifle=1229 fps, SD 25 pistol=1022 fps SD 25

This and the info over on BBTI give me good info to speculate!?, my Single seven has the 5.5" barrel and my Henry has the 20" barrel.

[wrench man]

Call me crazy, but having to squeeze the lever against the rifle to get a lever action to fire just seems so wrong.

That's a Winchester thing!, that's about 50% of the reason I got rid of my Winchester 94, I have MANY Marlins and NONE of them require the lever to be gorilla gripped to fire the rifle!, NO you're NOT crazy!

[Bigslug]

It's also worth wrapping your bean around the fact that there were a lot of things back in the day like Ballards, Low Walls, Martinis, and assorted lever guns that were firing things in the small to large handgun category, and those guns fed A LOT of people. . . despite the fact that the purveyors of modern ammo would have you believe that you'd be a bad sportsman at best and would starve at worst if you tried to hunt with something so anemic. With cast LFN's and smokeless, a 9mm carbine can probably play indistinguishably alongside, and a .357 would exceed the capabilities of most of them.

[tazman]

Good point.

I like the semi-auto rifles for 9mm and 45ACP. I would like to get one that accepts magazines from my Springfield XDm series guns. Don't know if anyone makes one yet.
I know they have PCC carbines that take Glock magazines but I don't currently own a Glock and really don't want to add another brand to my collection just to use the mags in the carbine.
Preferably, any semi-auto PCC would accept the magazines from your matching handgun.
With lever guns, the concept isn't as important because the usage differs slightly.
Personally, I wouldn't choose a lever action carbine for home defense but would use a semi-auto 9mm or 45ACP carbine, particularly if it shared magazines with my handgun.
Does that make me a little strange?

[GregLaROCHE]

Just the other day I was looking at my brand new Lyman .44 mag dies I bought twenty years ago at the same time as .44 mag Marlin. My son has the gun now.

Anyway, I can’t back this up with fact, but I’ve always thought a rifle in a pistol cartridge could never reach its potential with factory loads. This being because all factory loads are designed for handguns and are using fast powder. A rifle could profit from different loads with slower powders.

[JBinMN]

Good point.

I like the semi-auto rifles for 9mm and 45ACP. I would like to get one that accepts magazines from my Springfield XDm series guns. Don't know if anyone makes one yet.
I know they have PCC carbines that take Glock magazines but I don't currently own a Glock and really don't want to add another brand to my collection just to use the mags in the carbine.
Preferably, any semi-auto PCC would accept the magazines from your matching handgun.
With lever guns, the concept isn't as important because the usage differs slightly.
Personally, I wouldn't choose a lever action carbine for home defense but would use a semi-auto 9mm or 45ACP carbine, particularly if it shared magazines with my handgun.
Does that make me a little strange?

Well, although I am in agreement about having a PCC that matches magazines to the semi auto pistols I own, the point where you & I would differ, as per your post, is that I would prefer a 12ga. shotgun for home defense over a PCC of any kind.(<although I would use anything I had handy, if that HD need arose. I would usually prefer a scattergun as a HD firearm, depending on the situation. Handguns would be option #2. Of firearms, a rifle would be last of my choices, but I would use one if necessary to get the job done. )

So, No... "I" would not call it strange. But , then again, I am sure there are more than a few here who think I am strange & I don't really care if they do. It is your choice to make about such things & no one else choice to make, right?
LOL

[tazman]

Just the other day I was looking at my brand new Lyman .44 mag dies I bought twenty years ago at the same time as .44 mag Marlin. My son has the gun now.

Anyway, I can’t back this up with fact, but I’ve always thought a rifle in a pistol cartridge could never reach its potential with factory loads. This being because all factory loads are designed for handguns and are using fast powder. A rifle could profit from different loads with slower powders.

This is true. That said, I want both rifle and handgun to be able to use all the ammo. If I have to use some of the ammo in only one of the guns, it negates any advantage of having both in the same caliber.
I am willing to accept small compromises in performance to get the best compatibility.

[tazman]

Well, although I am in agreement about having a PCC that matches magazines to the semi auto pistols I own, the point where you & I would differ, as per your post, is that I would prefer a 12ga. shotgun for home defense over a PCC of any kind.(<although I would use anything I had handy, if that HD need arose. I would usually prefer a scattergun as a HD firearm, depending on the situation. Handguns would be option #2. Of firearms, a rifle would be last of my choices, but I would use one if necessary to get the job done. )

So, No... "I" would not call it strange. But , then again, I am sure there are more than a few here who think I am strange & I don't really care if they do. It is your choice to make about such things & no one else choice to make, right?
LOL

I am thinking I will probably end up with both a lever rifle in 357mag and a semi-auto rifle in either 9mm or 45ACP(or maybe both). As I said, slightly different intended usage there although there is overlap.
Any reason manufacturers cannot make a lever rifle in 9mm or 45ACP?

[jcren]

Good point.

I like the semi-auto rifles for 9mm and 45ACP. I would like to get one that accepts magazines from my Springfield XDm series guns. Don't know if anyone makes one yet.
I know they have PCC carbines that take Glock magazines but I don't currently own a Glock and really don't want to add another brand to my collection just to use the mags in the carbine.
Preferably, any semi-auto PCC would accept the magazines from your matching handgun.
With lever guns, the concept isn't as important because the usage differs slightly.
Personally, I wouldn't choose a lever action carbine for home defense but would use a semi-auto 9mm or 45ACP carbine, particularly if it shared magazines with my handgun.
Does that make me a little strange?

This is why I converted my hipoint to take 1911 mags.

[GhostHawk]

"Personally, I wouldn't choose a lever action carbine for home defense but would use a semi-auto 9mm or 45ACP carbine, particularly if it shared magazines with my handgun.
Does that make me a little strange? "

No, not strange at all in my book.

I have a pair of win 94 levers, for home defense work they just do not come into the equation. I do have a Hipoint 45acp carbine, and a Springfield 1911 in .45acp. They don't use the same mags, but do use the same ammo with no issues.

Same with my Hipoint C9 pistol and 9mm carbine. Mags are different, pistol are shorter. Carbine mag will fit up in there but does not latch. But ammo swaps as needed.

I would stay away from .44 mag as there can be a lot of difference in bullet size required.

.40sw/10mm, .45acp, possibly 45 colt are going to be your best heavy hitters where you are likely to be able to use the same ammo across platforms.

Me I'm looking for a rifle be it single shot, lever, whatever that will shoot my pistols .32sw longs more accurately to a longer distance, and ideally be easy to setup for a sight or scope.

I like the look of the Henry Big Boy Steel in .327 Fed Mag. But I bet it won't cycle my little .32sw longs. So it turns it into a 900$ single shot. Bleah. Like that is going to happen.

Any of those guys turning Yildiz folding .410 shotguns into rook rifles want to sent me a quote for one chambered in .32 H&R mag or .32sw Long I'd be interested.

But I want good accuracy, golfballs at 75 meters, 100 with scope, and lightweight.

If I aim at a squirrel or rabbits eye at 100 y I want a dead critter 9 out of 10.

fyi my pefered load is the Lee .314 90 gr truncated cone tumble lubed with 2 light coats of BLL over 2 grains of Red Dot and a CCI small pistol primer.

[tazman]

The Henry Big Boy steel in 357 mag will feed 38 specials. It may be that the 327mag version will feed the 32 longs. It does feed both the Federal mag and the H&R mag which are quite different lengths and your 32 long is only .1" shorter. You would have to see if it worked.

[dverna]

Tazman,

I bought a Kel-Tec 2000 in 9mm for home defense when I lived in the city. It was a fun gun but.....it would not work. The action was too difficult for my then girlfriend to cycle. So if you have a person with limited strength, it is not a good choice. This can be an issue with most semi-auto PCC's that is overlooked. And the slide of a pistol is also difficult for weaker people to operate.

Now that we are living in the country, things have changed a bit. As you know, and helped me with, I recently purchased a pair of 686+ revolvers. They will pair well with the lever action rifles we primarily shoot to plink with. The pistols will also be used for HD.

My other HD guns are a couple of AR's (living in the country makes them a more reasonable choice as over penetration is not much of a concern) and a couple of Mossberg 500's. With no children in the house, all the guns can be left loaded and ready.

As to the .38/.357 ammunition question for HD, these are my thoughts. Whatever works best in the pistols is going to be even better in the carbines. Maybe not optimum but good enough. The "best" rifle load will likely give too much muzzle blast and flame from a revolver and that will be not a good thing...especially at night. At this point we are working up a load for the pistols that my fiancé can handle and I expect it will somewhere between .38+P and low end .357. That will be our SD load and our carbine varmint load. I will still have a "plinking" load in the 900-1000 fps area with the 130 gr bullet. As you pointed out, compromises must be made as the "best" performing pistol load will not be the "best" rifle load due to the large difference in barrel length. But having two loads makes sense for us as we plink a lot with both the rifles and pistols and firing 75 full house .357's out of a pistol is not fun for everyone.

To KISS, I will likely use .357 brass for the HD/varmint loads and .38 cases for plinking.

[GregLaROCHE]

This is true. That said, I want both rifle and handgun to be able to use all the ammo. If I have to use some of the ammo in only one of the guns, it negates any advantage of having both in the same caliber.
I am willing to accept small compromises in performance to get the best compatibility.

Well at least you have all that is needed to load each. Maybe different powders. You know for sure the handgun loads will work in the rifle and maybe the rifle loads will still work in a handgun. For personal protection what ever comes out of the barrel, as long as the gun can take it, will probably do the job.

A good example of what doesn’t work well is a .30 carbine in a handgun. Most of the powder gets blown out before it has a chance to burn.

[Texas by God]

I owned and shot a Rossi .357 for ten years and I shot 3 to 1 .38 special over .357 mag. They are fun no doubt but if I go that way again I'll get a Marlin .41mag and a companion Ruger Blackhawk.

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