Pistol caliber carbines Plusses and Minuses--your opinion?

[winelover]

I guess you could say that I like em...........have like chambered carbines (38/357, 44/44 MAG and 9mm) for most all my centerfire pistols. Versatility being the main advantage. Since I was already loading for the pistols, the carbines were just a natural progression.

Since I have already taken big game with handguns, I almost always reach for my Marlin 1894 (44 MAG) carbine, when I go deer hunting. Never know when a longer shot might be presented.

Winelover

[GhostHawk]

I have 3 Hipoint carbines and love them all. Started with a used .40sw from GB at about 250$. At 20 feet it would put 10 rounds in a 2" shoot and see stick on bullseye. And with a Red Dot you could cut the center out of that target. No way I can shoot a .40sw pistol that well.

Recoil is virtually nonexistent. Very little muzzle flip, so you back on target dang quick.
With the forward handgrip you have a reasonably light, flexible home defense tool that does not cost a lot, is easy to reload for. And a barrel of laughs to shoot. Mine is currently protecting my daughters and grandkids. It is on load for now. Still waiting for SIL to grow up some more.

9mm is all of that and then some. That is momma's dedicated get outa my house gun.

Third is in .45acp and while it was the last to arrive, it is the most loved, most accurate of them all. Maybe because it was new.

I also have a 9mm stubb barrel for my handi single shot. Makes a very light weight comfortable walking gun that will stack them up at distances out to 100.

I don't hunt anymore but I am pretty darn sure it would do the job.

Me I love them for several reasons.

A they don't beat up my shoulder like a full rifle.

B They are inexpensive, cheap to run. Look at the cost of a box of 20 .30-30 compared to the cost of a box of 50 pistol cartridges. Last 9mm I bought was 24cents each to my door.

C They tend to be short coupled, easy to adapt for inside the house or close quarters.

D They are just plain fun to shoot.

YMMV

[jcren]

Should have been more clear, 3 were smaller 50-70 pounders shot from as clos as 30 yards, one was close to 200 pounds shot @ 70 yards. The big boy was hit high behind the shoulder (shot at night with a predator light) and the smaller ones were all shot behind the shoulder to center mass (on the run). The big boy dropped and i put another through center mass (laying on his side, back toward me). Not elegant, strictly vermine contol. I was working up firebreathing thumpers and trying to get reliability at 1300 plus, but after seeing how my possum popper (just what happened to be in the gun when i saw him) load worked on the big one I quit worrying and beating up the gun.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I got interested in the Old West concept of having a rifle and a revolver that use the same ammo a couple of years ago. I did a lot of buying and trying. .44-40, .45 LC. I think that it's still a neat concept, but have concluded that for it to be of value the ammo for both has to be the same, and the compromise is ideal for neither. Put another way, if you shoot one version of a cartridge custom loaded for your revolver to obtain maxim performance in a 5 1/2 inch barrel, and you use a different load in your 20 inch barrel carbine, neither load will usually perform at optimum in the other firearm; and in the case of a hot carbine load it might actually be unsafe in the revolver. This is sort of verified by the ammo manufacturers, as I do recall in past years seeing .44 WCF cartridge boxes marked "use in rifle only". I think the real value and the real fun here is to have one load to swap between revolver and carbine that is satisfactory in both, the original concept, but not necessarily sterling in either. Finding a happy compromise.

That having been said, as noted by a previous poster, I think the .44 Magnum might be the exception. I used to hunt with a fellow that had a new Marlin 1894 carbine, and it was an outstanding deer rifle. The handgun can also handle some pretty stout loads, especially the Blackhawk, but it's a bit more handgun that I really want to pack around, or for that matter shoot on a daily basis. Speaking just for me, and I know there are others who will disagree greatly, but I view the .44 Mag. as just past being a handy pistol cartridge and more of a carbine cartridge. Of course, you can load the .44 down and "tame" it, but then your back to it probably doesn't work at it's best level in the carbine.

Then, for me, the situation exactly reverses itself with the .30 Carbine. I love the actual rifle/carbine, but sold my early Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine revolver, because when I fired WW II LC ammo in it the concussion and fireball made me feel like my nose was about to bleed. Another problem in the case of the rifle/carbine, it's gas operated so reduced loads may not function the action.

.32-20 is another odd one. I like the revolvers, but it's so wussy in a carbine that I sold the carbine and kept the revolvers. I honestly think I prefer the .22 LR in a rifle.

So, after lots of expense and shooting, my conclusion has been the value is to remain within the original concept of fully interchangeable ammo, even if it doesn't perform at optimum in both revolver and carbine, just because it's fun. Like others have said, for more serious work move up to the .30-30.

[osteodoc08]

PCC (semi auto) = CHEAP FUN

PCC (Mag lever) = Best Multitasker

[Bigslug]

Taz, My thinking on pistol-caliber long guns has shifted a bit towards their favor in recent years. Determining factors:

1. Cast bullets. Having seen how deeply a solid LFN can penetrate, and how that penetration can be tuned with hollow points and alloy tweaks, I no longer have the extreme opposing knee jerk reaction to notions of say. . .maybe taking an elk with .45 ACP. We no longer have bison because of cartridges in the 1200fps range, but we're still suffering the effects long period of having other, Madison Avenue inspired notions of what was "necessary". For my own part. . .I'm over the velocity salesmanship of Roy Weatherby.

2. How far you actually have available to shoot. One of my passions is WWI battle rifles. . .but the range I most frequently shoot on only has 100 yards of level ground, and only goes to @ 185 with about a 10-15 degree uphill slope. Yes, fun can be had with the 150-220 grains at 2000+ FPS level rifles on such ranges, but on some level you're just beating yourself up with recoil, and for what?

3. Cost. We thankfully seem to be out of the period of "can't find .22LR anywhere at any price", but we shouldn't ever forget it. Scrounged range lead and powder charges of 5-20 grains make for cheap practice, which makes for more practice, which makes for better skill.

4. Handguns take A LOT of work. You're either willing/able to put in the time, effort, and expense to where you can approach the mechanical capabilities of the firearm (and be a threat to soup cans at 50 yards), or you aren't (and it will remain a tool only useful across a living room). A rifle makes it all easier.

So, for example, a .357 carbine can kill medium game quite well at the distances you're most likely to see it at, not turn you black and blue, cost almost nothing to feed, and give you a reasonable chance of connecting despite lack of time to practice. And, they're really fun.

[charlie b]

That brings up a good point. At many places people are limited to ranges that are 100 or 200yd. At those ranges a pistol carbine is perfectly fine.

I am lucky to live where we have a 1000yd range as well as a full silhouette range so my 'plinking' rifle is a .223.

[Three44s]

My favorite gunsmith/gun shop owner, retired a while back said the handgun carbines were a solution looking for a problem.

There is a lot of merit to that claim, but much to argue in the reverse.

I for one have owned a Marlin 94 in 357 since they came out in 1980. In fact it was at least ten years before I bought a revolver in the cartridge.

I made my move to the 44 Mag cartridge in the 90’s but after three revolvers am yet to add a carbine chambering it. I want a Marlin in the cartridge, it just has not fallen into place yet. One of my 44’s was traded for a SRH in 480 Ruger and a handy lever carbine in that cartridge would in my estimation be a good combination.

Some folks get the hives if they look in their powder storage and see one too many cans of powder, not me, I see flexibility. A rider crossing vast expanses on a horse in the old American west had a dilemma that I do not, that of keeping rifle and hand gun fed. I do not ride a horse for miles to find some more cartridges, I just get them from my own home “store”.

Until or unless an opportunity affords itself to acquire another handgun cartridge fed rifle I side stepped the debate when I acquired a Marlin waffle top in 35 Remington. Boolit molds can cast 35 caliber slugs that fit my 357’s, 357 Herret and 35 Rem.

But the itch while subsided still exists at a toned down level. The 44 and 480 question still is unanswered ......

Maybe it will get settled with a 45-70? Maybe the Marlin in 44 or get lucky and get a Rossi in it’s discontinued 480?

Three44s

[imashooter2]

Biggest advantage is straight walled cases that take little powder or lead and fall from a progressive press at 400+ an hour.

[dverna]

We do not plink very much at ranges over 50 yards, so a .38 Spl load works in both the pistols and carbines we use for that function. A light and pleasant load to shoot in any gun. No die adjustments or powder changes when reloading...just KISS. Produced in quantity on a 1050. I could hunt with the .357 Mag but feel no need to when I have better options but I will be working on a defense/critter control load this year.

I came close to getting a 9mm to do the same but policing brass is easier with the revolvers and lever actions. Also, it seems almost any load works in any of our .38/.357 guns....but the 9’s are more of a challenge. In the end, the 9mm offered the advantage of faster reloads and rates of fire...which did not matter much for the plinking we do. And I doubt the reloads are that much faster when the time to charge magazines is considered.

PCCs are fun and cheap to shoot. Downloading bottleneck rifle calibers for cheap rifle practice makes little sense if you have a PCC. Bottleneck cases are expensive and slow to reload compared to cranking out straightwall pistol cases.

Although I am currently “married” to the .38/.357 platform, if I was starting over, I would likely still select it unless I wanted to hunt; then it would be the .44 Mag. There are so many SA, DA, and lever actions in the caliber that finding a gun is easy. Then there is the availability of relatively cheap brass and light bullet weights...coupled with ease of casting and reloading.

[GARD72977]

Imashooter2 hit the nail on the head. Progressive loading is appealing when shooting a lot. So is cheap brass. I have a coue 9mm carbine and a 44mag lever. U woulf like to ad a 38spl lever.

[psweigle]

For me, the grandkids were the reason. They can shoot a pcc all day, as there is very little recoil or noise. And because I reload, they are cheaper to shoot than .22lr.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Now that the line between a pistol and sbr has been blurred, that CMMG Guard in .45 acp is looking good. The one with the 8" bbl. Give me a good reason to cast and load .45. I'm not as good with a pistol as I once was either and a carbine let's me really put them in there.

[Lonegun1894]

I have rifle/pistol combos in several calibers, like .22LR, .357 Mag, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, and .223 (AR rifle and Contender pistol). All have their uses, but the straight wall calibers, as has been said, use little powder, reasonable amounts of lead, and are perfectly capable of the majority of my hunting and target shooting needs. Actually, except for using my AR at work, all my needs could be met with cast lead, cause I don't need high velocity or long range to stop a criminal in my house or a hog at usually under 50 yards in the woods.

[trapper9260]

To have a rifle /pistol combo works the best for what ever you like to do and also for what is stated already. If you want to only do long range or hunting with bottle neck then that is what will work the best. I know some states open for use of PPC for deer hunting. So it dose work out in that way also. and like stated since you reload for the handgun why not use it for a rifle also.

[buckwheatpaul]

I've got a Ruger PC9 and at 100 yds I can consistently hit an 8" metal gong using the red dot sight.....picks up about 200 fps over handgun....perfect for my hog use and carry on the utv.....

[Dinny]

I have hunted with PCCs since Indiana made them deer-legal in 2008. I have a 44 Mag, 445 SM, 454 Casull, 357 Mag, and a 357 Maximum. I have killed deer with each of them at distances only the most accomplished pistolero could hit. I encourage anyone who decides to hunt with one to test their bullets in a suitable medium to ensure they penetrate and expand appropriately for the game hunted. Many pistol bullets are unsuitable for carbine hunting. They come apart and don't penetrate when fired at carbine velocities. I learned that lesson by shooting a 225gr Barnes XPB from a 45 Colt rifle at a velocity 200fps faster than the bullet's intended velocity range. The deer ran more than 400 yds before dying. The XPB lost it's petals and penetrated like a solid.

Thanks, Dinny

[McFred]

I had a barrel made in 357SIG for a Contender. It's a lot stronger platform than the pistol I had originally and can load it to 2000fps with a 121gr .356" Hornady Action Pistol projectile. That's almost 1100ft/lbs at the muzzle. Mind you I would not use the same load in the pistol but it smacks jugs and steel at 100 yards with authority and it will hold MOA with a scope.

I have been very tempted to take it on a hog hunt but there are doubts on how well it would perform on meat at range. Those 121HAPs will go though 6 layers of denim and 3 milk jugs of water making a beautiful mushroom even after 100 yards, that should be enough for a little pig. People will shoot pigs with a 125gr projectile in 300B0 carbine at nearly the same velocity... I'll have to see what it does at 25 yards in the same media.

Nowadays I just load it to ~1200fps and shoot 158 cast with a red dot for cheaper than I can shoot rimfire. Super fun.

[leadman]

I had an 18" Contender barrel in 45acp. The 185gr JHP would exit the muzzle at around 1,800 fps pushed by a load of Blue Dot. I did not own a 45 acp pistol at that time so did not worry about getting these loads in it. Only thing I shot with it was paper and a jack rabbit. Really made a mess of Mr. Wrabbit!

[Lloyd Smale]

yup. the cost of loading and the ease of loading alone are all the argument I need to justify them. Load and shoot 500 9mm shells with cast bullets then do the same with 5.56 or for the lever guys load 500 38s or 357s and then compare that to loading even cast 3030s and your using twice the powder even for pop gun loads and loading time is at least doubled.

Biggest advantage is straight walled cases that take little powder or lead and fall from a progressive press at 400+ an hour.