Pistol caliber carbines Plusses and Minuses--your opinion?

[tazman]

yup. the cost of loading and the ease of loading alone are all the argument I need to justify them. Load and shoot 500 9mm shells with cast bullets then do the same with 5.56 or for the lever guys load 500 38s or 357s and then compare that to loading even cast 3030s and your using twice the powder even for pop gun loads and loading time is at least doubled.

These are very good points. Persuasive.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Taz: you need one so just start looking . There are two basic styles of guns. There's Semi Autos, and there's Leverguns. Both are Pistol Caliber Carbines. Both have many uses.

Here's my Taz.

Randy

[Kimber1911]

I had a Keltec sub 2000, what a pile that thing was, fun to shoot, had Glock 30 rd mags, had it a couple years, sold it for what I had into it. Wish I still had it in 2012-2013 when they tripled in price!

[wrench man]

Just kinda skimmed over this?
Wonder how the 327 Federal improves in a lever gun over a revolver, anybody know?

Have revolver/rifle combo's in 22LR, 30 Carbine, 327 Federal, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 Colt, I need to get a rifle chambered in 41 Mag!

And those of you still stating that you can reload any centerfire round for less than 22LR?, must be nice to have a hoard from the 50's, 60's or maybe as late as the 70's??, just the primers are running about .03¢, 22 LR can be had for less than .02¢ these days!??

[Silvercreek Farmer]

And those of you still stating that you can reload any centerfire round for less than 22LR?, must be nice to have a hoard from the 50's, 60's or maybe as late as the 70's??, just the primers are running about .03¢, 22 LR can be had for less than .02¢ these days!??

I thought I missed the $.02 22s. Are there still some available? I load 9mm and 38s right at .04 using Promo, scrap lead, and bulk primers bought not too long ago.

[crankycalico]

[QUOTE=wrench man;4538450]Just kinda skimmed over this?
Wonder how the 327 Federal improves in a lever gun over a revolver, anybody know?

Have revolver/rifle combo's in 22LR, 30 Carbine, 327 Federal, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 Colt, I need to get a rifle chambered in 41 Mag!

haven't seen anything under 5 cents a round, and for those you typically have to buy a 5000 round case. Other wise, 8 cents a round seems to be the new normal.

And considering how bad some brands of rim fire are in terms of ignition, really cant beat a primer that typically sells for 40$/1000 or less.

At the same time, the carbines create issues with jacketed bullets. osme of those bullets aren't really meant to go past pistol velocities, so when EXAMPLE that bullet designed to open up at say 1000 fps, it tossed into a target or animal at 1300 fps, terminal performance goes to ****.

[tazman]

Just kinda skimmed over this?
Wonder how the 327 Federal improves in a lever gun over a revolver, anybody know?

Have revolver/rifle combo's in 22LR, 30 Carbine, 327 Federal, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 Colt, I need to get a rifle chambered in 41 Mag!

And those of you still stating that you can reload any centerfire round for less than 22LR?, must be nice to have a hoard from the 50's, 60's or maybe as late as the 70's??, just the primers are running about .03¢, 22 LR can be had for less than .02¢ these days!??

ballistics by the inch has a listing for 327 mag. Not certain if that is the same cartridge though. They don't have real world rifle results but they should be close.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/327mag.html

[sawinredneck]

I’ll throw another monkey wrench in, no one has mentioned the 10mm yet, this is a caliber deserving of a carbine! It seriously wakes up with some barrel length. A pistol and carbine in this would have you covered for about anything you’d want to run across. I’m hoping to get a Hi-Point at some point, just because. No, it’s not a .308 or even .44mag, but it’ll work and having compatibility between two guns is a bonus. Once setup, reloading won’t be terribly expensive either.
Just another perspective Tazman.

[sghart3578]

"haven't seen anything under 5 cents a round, and for those you typically have to buy a 5000 round case. Other wise, 8 cents a round seems to be the new normal. "

I just bought 5 1600 round cases of the Federal bulk 22 LR. After the rebate it came out to 2.7 cents per round.

It is manufactured by CCI. It's accuracy is just as good as the other 22 LR rounds that I normally buy.

As far as pistol caliber carbines go I have several. I have never constructed a valid treatise on why they are needed, if at all, or why they are a superior platform for lead delivery.

I just know that out of all of my bolt guns, singleshots, pump guns, flintlocks, lever actions and evil black rifles they are, hands down, the most fun gun to shoot that I own.


Steve in N CA

[crankycalico]

a lot of people go for the carbines because they cant take full recoil of something like say even a .223 in a 6 pound rifle, but put a 9mm in the same platform and its "sex with icecream" for them.

and some people absolutely cant hit **** with a handgun, so in order to avoid NFA ****, they get the carbine in 9mm

[45workhorse]

It's another gun!
That all the reason I need.

[jmort]

"...10mm yet, this is a caliber deserving of a carbine! It seriously wakes up with some barrel length."

No, not so much. Nothing like the magnum revolver cases. Not even close.

[MOA]

These PPC offer for me the ability to:
1. Carry long and short arms in one caliber.
2. A straight walled case that uses small amounts of powder.
3. For me, shoots a large diameter, heavy for caliber boolit.
4. A good match of caliber to bbl length with caliber choice.
For me, I choose the 44 mag as my caliber for the long and short arm. I use a S&W model 29 Classic with 8-3/8" barrrel and adjustable sights. My carbine is a Ruger Deerfield with a 3 x 9 x 40 scope. Revolver used up to 100 yards, carbine used up to 200 yards. Rotary magazine on carbine allows use of my 215 grain powder coated cast spire point boolets which are just what my Smith like to spit out too.

[Ramjet-SS]

I was just looking over the current crop of carbines chambered in pistol calibers. Just about everything from 9mm through 45LC.
Many good, dependable, and accurate choices out there.
My question is, What do you really gain or lose with a carbine over a handgun?
According to Ballistics by the Inch, there really isn't much difference in velocity and energy with the addition of several inches of barrel for most of the handgun cartridges. The exceptions being the magnum cartridges loaded with slower burning powders(357mag, 44mag, and in some cases, the 45LC.
At most the non magnum cartridges gain 200fps or less. Most often, less.
All you gain is a weapon with better aiming systems and less felt recoil. This ignores the fun factor of course.
You don't really gain effective range because velocity is the first thing you lose with a pistol boolit. You do get(normally) enough better accuracy that you can extend your accurate range to beyond the practical limits of the cartridge.
With the magnum cartridges, you gain quite a bit of velocity due to the extra barrel length. This makes the carbines effective beyond the range of the same cartridge in a handgun. The better accuracy allows this extra effective range to be put to good use.
I realize there are people out there who can shoot a handgun equally as well at distance as they can a carbine. Most people are not in this group. I know that I certainly am not in it.
The magnum cartridge carbines, at least, give you a good practical extension to the effective range of the cartridge over a handgun.
Other than the fun factor and the easily handled carbine length rifles, what is the point to a pistol cartridge in a carbine when you essentially gain nothing but some extra weight to carry around?

Better aiming system is certainly a tremendous advantage. I built up a little carbine for the 10mm in an TC Contender it is extremely accurate but when compared to my Glock model 40 with a 7" KKM M barrel the velocities are very close not much gain with the 18" Contender same is true for the HiPoint carbine in 10 and my Kriss vector holds true to that as well.

That said I see the gains when shooting 44, 45 Long Colt and 460 S&W and 480 Ruger but they hit the point of deminishing returns. Comparing the little 9mm the differences are far less like the 10mm so I would venture to say gains in larger capacity cases are definately there but the smaller the capacity the less the gain.

But we like the the accuracy for a number of applications.

They certainly have utility and are fun my little KelTec 9mm is a lot of fun to run especially with the low power extended eye relief scope I have on it.

[Ramjet-SS]

These PPC offer for me the ability to:
1. Carry long and short arms in one caliber.
2. A straight walled case that uses small amounts of powder.
3. For me, shoots a large diameter, heavy for caliber boolit.
4. A good match of caliber to bbl length with caliber choice.
For me, I choose the 44 mag as my caliber for the long and short arm. I use a S&W model 29 Classic with 8-3/8" barrrel and adjustable sights. My carbine is a Ruger Deerfield with a 3 x 9 x 40 scope. Revolver used up to 100 yards, carbine used up to 200 yards. Rotary magazine on carbine allows use of my 215 grain powder coated cast spire point boolets which are just what my Smith like to spit out too.

Nice combination and the caliber is perfect.

[jmort]

Ramjet post #54 is spot on as others have pointed out.
I have two Cx4 Storms that I really like.
Use the Lehigh Penetrator and Defender bullets.
500 ft lbs
Not much they can't do at close range

[jdfoxinc]

TNW has a 10mm bolt and barrel assembly for their ASR. That's on my list. That will make 4 barrels/calibers for one gun for me.

[tazman]

Thanks for all the replies. This has given me much to think about.
My thoughts are running in the direction of a lever action in 357 mag at this point. I may add something else at a later date.
Kind of thinking about a Henry Big Boy steel at this point. This may be the best compromise for general use and fun for me. I have a couple of choices for handgun to match with it.

[JBinMN]

I don't have any PCCs yet, but have been thinking about them for some time. I am enjoying reading many of the posts in this topic & thank those who posted for sharing.

Right now I am leaning toward .357Mag or .44Mag PCC in a lever type action. Still on the fence about any other handgun calibers I load for, as well as the semi auto platform.

I am still a bigger fan of wood stock, over synthetic, & that is just one hurdle for me to consider as well.

So I will continue to just read what others have to say about them & ponder some more until I finally make up my mind.

Thanks again for the ones who posted the "well informed" posts!

[JBinMN]

Tazman,

I see we not only posted at the same time, just now, but seem to have the same idea about lever actions, as well as considering .357Mag.
And ,Yes, those Henry s are in my line of thinking as well...

Funny that, to "me" anyway...



G'Luck! in your decision making, I am still sitting here on the fence.